News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Court rules drug dog barely more accurate than a coin fli... by rayiner on Friday August 07, 2015 @03:18PM (#10024412)
> Then there is the rate of those who are actually carrying drugs within the a group that the police have pulled over, and suspect are carrying drugs, and have also presumably asserted their rights and refused a consensual search by the police and also do not have some other attribute (such as smell, items visible in plain view) that would provide probable cause.

Yes, but that hurts your argument rather than helping it. The drug dog does not, by itself have to clear the probable cause hurdle. Rather, the totality of the circumstances has to yield probable cause: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_v._Gates.

So say the base rate for carrying drugs is 10% in the population. The police, based on their suspicions, pull over a population of people where 40% are carrying illegal drugs. Then, the drug dog comes in, and he's barely better than a coin flip--60% correct. Out of 100 people stopped, he'll correctly identify 24 of the 40 carrying drugs, and incorrectly flag 24 of the 60 not carrying drugs. But overall the process will be right 50% of the time, versus only a 10% probability if you stopped drivers at random. That's probable cause.

Re:Court rules drug dog barely more accurate than a coin fli... by SilasX on Friday August 07, 2015 @03:52PM (#10024608)
But I thought PC couldn't count a officer's inarticulable hunch towards that "totality of the circumstances".

For example, let's say that the dog is not sufficient probable cause. Consider the cases:

1) drug dog indicates + suspect driving erratically

2) drug dog indicates + "I just have a feeling"

Am I correct that 1) might be PC but 2) could not be, no matter how accurate that officer turns out to be in practice?

(In case 2, the dog's finding more drugs than the base rate would not validate its accuracy, as the results are being pre-filtered to have a very different distribution.)

Re:Court rules drug dog barely more accurate than a coin fli... by rayiner on Friday August 07, 2015 @05:13PM (#10025050)
If they're finding drugs at several times the base rate, the officer's suspicions probably aren't an "inarticulate hunch."
Re:Court rules drug dog barely more accurate than a coin fli... by SilasX on Friday August 07, 2015 @06:00PM (#10025274)
The term I used was inarticulable, and if you are unable to articulate something (like to a judge), then that makes it inarticulable -- irrespective of how otherwise grounded it was.

So rationally, the cop's "spidey sense" is indeed evidence. The question I posed to you (and whoever's reading) was whether it counts as legal evidence. And it's my understanding that, no matter how good your spidey sense is, it does not become PC in a legal sense until it is articulable. As Thomas Moore said in A Man for All Seasons:

"The world must construe according to its wits; this court, according to the law."

Re:Court rules drug dog barely more accurate than a coin fli... by CPLX on Saturday August 08, 2015 @06:18PM (#10028807)
There's no objective way to determine a base rate here. If you argue there is what methodology are you using?