zippitydoodah68

..and this is the problem. The assertions of escape. I don't understand it. I would write prose the same way Jack Vance (did) and Gene Wolfe (does) if I could write. There can be one true way for the expression of logical thought. We can try exceptional dialects but they fail because they cannot encompass every concept we should expect and they cater to the ego and domain.

OTOH, the young always have a fresh perspective and they usually have good ideas based on the times. They should be listened to and mentored. Very few active older (1995+) folks left in IT ,after the method management and purposeful purging methods of the last 10 years, to mentor them. Most of us weren't great at teaching anyway. It was a paycheck.

That's why you need an ADT for strings. I've seen this problem (and experienced) this problem multiple times. Any char array needs explicit termination based on use.

This shows the state of domain knowledge in the industry. This is why people like me still exist because despite the huge progress in programming sophistication basic concepts escape everyone.

In general you seem like an absurd sort of creature. Neither here nor there. Bragging about your facility and business velocity. Everything you claim to do sysadmins were doing in 98 and with equal velocity and adequate coverage.

There were guys like this that were there before and helped everyone along: https://www.computerhope.com/people/don_libes.htm

Good for them.

Well, having an indoor cat means keeping an indoor cat happy which is a larger problem (for the caretaker) but indicative of the meta supremacy in house cat behavior.

In all seriousness I would rather take the time to care for a house cat than to deal with the possibility of roadkill/injury, disease, pests or other accidents of nature. If the cat is a problem for you then don't own one?

I think you can figure this out. Not about design, about determining demand/profit, data collection, and control.

It's not that sysadmins cannot do the work you are rightfully proud of. If there are two basic things that differentiates your statements from those of a traditional sysadmin it is these.

1. Design. 2. Discipline.

Where these two values are dispensable long term devops and the new world shine through. I've worked in both worlds and the only mistake is assuming one size fits all.

Let's see. 1. They get my browser transmitted information as corollary to my browsing habits which they then resell, pester me with, and analyze in order to create a dialectic which is flawed, impersonal and does not necessarily profit me. 2. Ergo: since when should I care about a random companies spend when they (indirectly) determine what I am spending in the first place? 3. If you really believe that tracking and an open society are good things make them available to all and offer them to everyone. I predict that will go badly. Self interest being what it is whether corporate or individual.

Actually the parasite infestation (fleas), lack of affection and food when they want it (except through hard work), temperature variations, etc...make the barn cat a misanthrope.

Every house cat owner knows that the house cat is the 'meta game mastermind'. Hell, they've engineered the system to care about their safety so much that it is cruelty to have them reproduce via the species own painful biology. Letting them out into the street is homicidal. If they get pests they inflict them on their caretaker and every other discomfort is communicated to the human caretaker willy nilly. When they want to exert themselves they can be amazingly cruel, subtle, unpredictable and unyielding. House cats win.

You have deep technical ladders and they may make sense in a place like Google. Who knows. I've seen a couple young men I've mentored go to work at Google and don't hear anything negative from them.

Any code anywhere is worth being careful with and a shell script can be more dangerous than your average glue language (tcl,python,perl) script. I don't see why you need 1200 lines of shell script unless most of it is error handling and safe execution wrapping.

Funny, I've worked at Georgetown and my grandfather went to Stanford. I've written (over 20+ years) good and bad shell scripts. They get better the older I get and they also seem to be (mostly) less than 50 lines. I don't understand why people say these things about edu unless it's intended to awe the easily impressed. Smart is smart and well rounded is well rounded anywhere.

And you are definitely not a sysad or any sort of sysadmin. The core mission of a sysad is to build the best environment possible while restricting that environment.

You seem to be the sort of developer that developers love and the sort of sysadmin that gets fired in the first week Just my .02 after two and a half decades.

Not to say that you are entirely wrong or your approach doesn't have merit in the new world (especially SV). But it doesn't work for sysadmins and production environments anywhere but your bubble. Not yet.

Been working since 86 in this industry.

You lose and gain and you should always be mindful of what is coming. Humility is good. I love you young guys, your ideas keep coming and they are mostly good.

I have shell libraries that generate code via here documents and other templating that are > 500 lines. That is about as far as I reasonably go. Note that these are function (and scope specific variables (with hopefully unique namespaces)) only code bases with copious comments and references to underlying tools.

Once bitten, always shy, eh? Not saying you are overreacting because I remember the bug and it was bad news. I use C pretty much exclusively (and have for 20 years) but I would rather see new development for handling user input and frequent memory (re)allocation done in Rust.

As a daily systems language Rust is not quite there (for me) yet.

'It depends..' is a quagmire for the unwary.

My route is to make a good rule about writing python with more than 'n' os., subprocess. and *.Popen calls automatically requiring shell script counterparts in case we find your need to pythonize unsafe, unreadable and slow|broken|buggy.

These types of pipelines are why bash and the traditional tools are so maligned. Expert knowledge of sed|(g)awk|bash tools is necessary otherwise you end up with companies telling you that you can't use them.

some_command | gawk ' /some.*regex$/ {gsub(erase_text,"");gsub(erase_more,"");split($2,a,":"); print (length(a[1]) ? a[1] : "STRING ERROR")}'

Perfectly convenient, safe and fast. Pick any two. https://docs.python.org/2/library/subprocess.html

I've told developers that if I catch them writing shell scripts in python they must commit a shell script doing the same set of operations. 2x the work usually dissuades from this type of nonsense.

That is mind blowing for me in a couple ways. * You have (at least) seven tiered support structures. * You have only one 'competent' shell programmer in your 'reachable' project scope.

No wonder these types of language policies are in place.