sorryimgreen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W86cTIoMv2U
Not to mention Planet Earth, which feels like watching Finding Nemo
Does it matter if they are conscious? Is it the ok to kill a person in a coma if you know he will probably wake up in 9 months? Is it okay to kill someone while they are sleeping? I don't see where consciousness comes into it.
> But similarly to 35-year-olds vs. 75-year-olds we only in extremis compare...
I think you missed what I was trying to convey here, but that was totally my fault. I wasn't clear and I'm too lazy to make a graph to try and explain what I meant. It doesn't really matter though because I in essence agree with you on this point.
> I'd respectfully disagree and continue to claim that many people are still attempting the reproductive and child-rearing subjugation of women in the world today.
I'm sorry I don't understand this sentence. Did you accidentally omit a word?
> neither fetuses nor women consented to being embodied in a universe where these biological realities exist
Yeah, sure! That's life though. I didn't consent to being mortal and having to also watch people I love die. I also didn't consent to being able to listen to beautiful music or experience the thrill of creating. I am placed firmly in a universe I have no control over and I can only be grateful even though it is not even nearly all good. Women are much, _much_ more selective for this exact reason - it is natural. A woman has a huge and heavy responsibility to choose a man who's problem it indeed will be to also look after the baby. She also reaps much greater rewards by experiencing a bond that a man can simply never experience.
The problem of abortion is linked to a society where relationships have been de-stabilized. The cure is not to kill the babies of mothers who are misled and left behind in the wreckage of broken and casual relationships, but instead to foster healthier ways of relating with each other. Society is unfortunately a bit sick at the moment and in recent decades, horrible symptoms like abortion, which were always taboo, are being brought to the surface.
Im sorry to say but this sounds like Orwellian doublethink.
> By week 6 the mother feels there is no future in the relationship and feels she can't offer the coming child a good childhood on her own.
Are you saying that a woman probably cannot reasonably provide a good life for a child without a man? I mean, even if she can't then this is an extremely tenuous link. I didn't have a good childhood at all and the scenario I was in personally was actually worse than you described but I turned out to be very happy. Even if I wasn't happy it would be worth living. There are also many people in truly horrific situations in the world - in every country.
In good faith and with much respect I am asking you: do you think that the chronically unhappy people of this world should have been aborted before they experienced this world and without their consent or knowledge? Obviously hard to put a number on it but with the kind of scenario you describe, maybe 20-25% of living adult people have been through?
> Sure, but if you wait ~5 seconds when trying to conceive a child then that first potential person won't exist and a different one will instead
You could literally say the same about anything. If I left the house 3 nanoseconds earlier on the 15th June 1994 then Covid might never have happened. What's the point here? That literally every entity is expendable because we could have been conceived with a different sperm?
> As a fetus ages its expectation of existing in the future increases over time but never to the extent that its' mother expects to exist, so expected utility of mothers exceeds fetuses in every scenario.
From a purely technical perspective not really. A fetus age 8 months has probably a 95% chance of living to 75 more years. A mother age 35 probably only has a 95% chance to reach 30 more years so the baby is kinda more valuable here if you like using cold calculations to value human life.
Having said this, if there were genuine threat to my wife's life, of course I would save her, even on the brink of birth.
> a slave class to exist whose sole or primary purpose is reproduction
Nobody is saying this. If a woman gets pregnant and she didn't want it to happen, that sucks. It really does. But this is the biology they were born with and as human beings we know that sex can cause babies. If I love committing insurance fraud then surely I should accept the risk of doing so right? (given that my participation in said fraud was consensual)
> This assumption doesn't match biology
Ok? How? Because you say so?
> It's not a proto-person
Ok? Again, just because you like to say so?
What is this mythical point of "viability" that you speak of? Let's say we develop sufficiently advanced tech that could incubate a baby from 6 weeks, then would it magically become a person? Back in the 1700s, when babies probably couldn't survive outside the womb if born prior to 32 weeks, was abortion okay until roughly that point?
Your argument is very mixed up.