skwb
The critical part imho will be allowing for enough independence in research, and that the time isn't just wasted filling in remedial RAs pushing pipettes around. Real safeguards will be needed, likely overseen by the PI and committee.
I genuinely hope it works and helps industry "figure out" that R&D is more than just simply productizing over the next quarter.
I can only hope that projects like these help build better lenses for the future.
At the *very* least you should be following the administrative rules act (requiring you to solicit 45 days for comments by effected parties) before making such a dramatic change in policy.
Courts absolutely love striking down EOs (of both Dems and Reps Admins) when they should have been following the administrative rules act.
I really get irked a lot by seeing (overly obvious) ai generated images being used for stock photos. One of the reasons my wife and I still subscribe to a couple of newspapers is that the photography helps bring to life the story being told. Why where these photos taken and how do they impact the story. You don't get that same visceral emotional reaction with low quality cartoon images.
That said, there's plenty of buying and selling of radiological images for industry development on the second hand market. Now where the line of "research" vs. "industrial" work is, well that's something I would leave to legal council. But as you said any sort of "altering" of clinical outcomes is a clear IRB is required zone like DL based recon.
I admit it sounds pedantic, but I'm not discussing IRB *exemptions* that are sometimes required by an institution nor am I discussing BAAs. I was specifically talking about the specific IRB applications (which I've submitted and signed before) that the blog author was talking about. Yes, HIPAA and other state and local regulations also govern what you can and cannot do with the data, but that's not what I argued.
Sorta off topic but the FDA doesn't care so much about SAR unless you're directly programming the MR machine's pulse sequence. If you're just doing quantification of some brain structure for monitoring a biomarker, they're primarily concerned if your product 1) matches an existing prerequisite and 2) functionality that your product achieves performance that you say it does. That is why the marketing around most of the early DL / AI based radiology startups were focused on language for "study prioritization" rather than more specific claims.
The point I'm trying to make is that the blog is so narrowly defined that it doesn't match the reality of clinical research.
IRBs are only REALLY required when you are intervening in patient care or pose some theoretical risk to a human.
Some institutions still want you to submit approval for institutional data, but as a non-lawyer it seems that's much more of a CYA policy.
Tbf python's stats implementations can be garbage; the last time I checked you can't do multiple levels for hierarchical regression.
I work in medical startup space and the evidence we develop to prove our technology works typically has a higher threshold than what I've seen presented. I would want to see significantly more work done to demonstrate the scientific validity of this research. Do they intend to carry out any additional pre-clinical research (in vitro/in vivo)? Do they intend to do a clinical trial? It appears from their slide deck that they don't?
I am a ML engineer at Vista AI, helping out in the recruiting process.
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We are looking to build on this initial success by hiring a Full Stack Engineer who has good front end and backend experience to help build internal annotation tools and manage our clinical imaging data. A successful candidate should have experience in Node.JS, Vue.JS (or other modern Javascript frontend), solid DevOps skills (Docker, kubernetes, cloud infrastructure, SSL, oauth/keycloak), and good understanding of modern databases (Postgres/Redis).
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We end up parking nearby since it's cheaper/easier to do so. Completely the worst set of incentives.
I actually ended up doing my PhD on automating the cardiac view planes using deep learning.
I have a PhD in bioinformatics, and yet I know that my personal expertise (and ability to consume) information about viral engineering is limited. I therefore have to rely on experts, and make a substantial effort to tune my priors to ensure I'm listening to the right sources. A single medium blog from a reporter without any editorial supervision is not an adequate substitute. When I have questions about how to adjust my priors for this subject, I have been in communication with colleagues whose expertise and knowledge are qualified to answer questions. And from all of this, there has been a general consensus from these scientists that while they cannot specifically rule out lab origin hypothesis, there does not even begin to approximate the amount of evidence we need in order to "prove" it. Remember in science we are trying to make claims that are by nature testable- if you cannot test a hypothesis, it's then just pure speculation.
If you want to waste your mental effort on "doing your own research" and making baseless speculation, fine, waste your time. Go off the deep end and find amusement of the sort of baseless conspiracy theory folks that appear on Joe Rogan. But do not for a moment bring baseless speculation into the realm of science. Too many people have spent too much time to waste it on people who cannot intellectually appreciate the differences between testable scientific hypothesis and a baseless speculative claim.
I read the Science article; the way it was drafted doesn't really specifically rule any particular thing out however. It's just calling for a further investigation, and says that both hypotheses remain "viable", which is an extremely low bar in science.
Combing Jasnah's thread with another by Andersen (https://twitter.com/K_G_Andersen/status/1391507230848032772), it paints a picture that any explicit engineering seems a bit far fetched. I have yet to seen any specific responses to these critiques of lab engineered FCN site hypothesis. Instead, I see mountains of people who are not in a position to critically evaluate these claims. Science is both an institution and a process, and not everyone is equally qualified to evaluate the evidence.
https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/13942570285586391...