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siland

Re:How to talk about autism respectfully on Thursday December 30, 2021 @04:35PM (#29741727)
Nitpicking the diagnostic criteria doesn't refute my main point, which was that desires and beliefs are not the same thing as actually being.

When you get down to the biological reality of it, a male with gender dysphoria, or who claims a to have a female 'gender identity', is quite obviously not a woman.

Re:How to talk about autism respectfully on Thursday December 30, 2021 @12:53PM (#29739135)
If that's what it takes for you to save face after not adequately explaining your points, then sure, why not.
Re:How to talk about autism respectfully on Wednesday December 29, 2021 @11:48PM (#29733717)
No, I didn't feel a jolt of anything.

Your comment was unclear to me though - exactly what parts of my comment were you referring to with your claim of "more hypotheses stated as results", and why? Please be specific.

Re:How to talk about autism respectfully on Wednesday December 29, 2021 @11:18PM (#29733550)
I'm not denying that gender dysphoria is a diagnosable condition. Indeed, I referred to its existence twice in my earlier comment. It's clearly a disorder that affects some people, even if the aetiology is currently unknown.

But consider what this diagnosis actually means: a strong desire to be the opposite sex. It's not the state of actually being the opposite sex, just a desire to be.

This remains the case even if the afflicted subject develops a belief that they are the opposite sex by way of a 'gender identity'.

It's because the reproductive strategy of humans (and many other animals) involves the mating of two sexes, with each sex providing a distinct type of gamete: eggs from females, and sperm from males. There's no third type of gamete and therefore no third sex.

The chromosomal abnormalities mentioned earlier don't define new sexes, but rather, phenotypic variations within the two sex categories. For example, people with XXY sex chromosomes develop as male, but with smaller-than-usual testicles that either underproduce sperm, or can't produce sperm. They also tend to be taller and have less muscle mass.

Another example: people with XXX sex chromosomes develop as female, generally with normal sexual development, including the capacity to get pregnant. They also are usually taller than average, and have a higher risk of learning disabilities and developmental delays.

This is all described much more extensively in the literature. Any general biology or developmental biology textbook should be good for providing further details.

> This comment is the equivalent to saying that people with mental health issues don't matter and don't count because they are abnormalities.

No it's not. They're just pointing out that these are unusual chromosomal configurations, not new sexes.

> So where somebody produced both male and female gametes what sex re they? Both simultaneously?

There are no recorded cases of this actually happening, and if it did in the future I expect an accurate description of their sex would depend on exactly what unusual biological circumstance has caused them to produce both gamete types. Both sexes simultaneously could perhaps apply in this scenario, e.g. if it was an instance of genetic mosaicism.

> Are infertile people sexless?

No, why would they be? They'd still belong to the sex class corresponding to their reproductive anatomy, even if it isn't fully functional or has been removed.

> Seems like according to this framework you would need to include neuter and perhaps intersex.

With most DSDs, the subject's sex is unambiguous. For example, Klinefelter syndrome only applies to males, Turner syndrome to females, etc.

Which conditions do you think wouldn't fit in this framework?

> I simply don’t hear people making arguments along the lines you’re talking about because “gender” is generally emphasized instead of “sex”.

I've observed these arguments being put forward in discussions of transgender issues. Though more recently there seems to be a trend towards arguing that the more nebulous concept of 'gender identity' is the most important factor in determining if someone is a man or a woman (or 'non-binary'). Not that I agree with that either.

I expect this would be in the context of someone from the "illiberal left" (a perhaps biased term, but the one used in the article) having already asserted the opppsite to one or more of these statements, and being corrected for it.

In particular, such assertions are often observed in discussions of gender issues.

> The amount of biological sexes aren’t even close to two. There’s XXY… XYY… XXX…

These are not sexes, these are chromosomal configurations.

Sex refers to the structure and purpose of the reproductive system, and ultimately the type of gamete (egg or sperm) this system is intended to produce. There's variation within each of the two sex classes, but there are indeed only two of them - discovery of a third type of gamete in humans would be quite the biological revelation!

> Nor is anybody arguing about “sexes” really the argument revolves around gender rather than biological sex.

The "sex is a spectrum" and "there are more than two sexes in humans" arguments are ones often put forward in debates about gender. Usually to defend the idea of 'sex reassignment surgery' being a process that actually changes someone's sex. Rather than a cosmetic procedure intended to alleviate psychological distress.