sebe

Main reason I'm replying is you've misspelled Fuchsia as Fuschia and to ramble a bit, maybe this was on purpose and if so that's ok. https://fuchsia.dev/

Some more ramblings -

My understanding with Fuchsia and programming languages,is they ditched Google's GoLang for Rust, they don't like GCs, but they're keeping Flutter due developer productivity, dart's hotreload feature, etc.

If Fuchsia ends up in the phone space, they would want it to run android apps, work is going on with starnic for running unmodified linux apps.

https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/contribute/governance/rfcs/0...

Also I watched some of the Fosdem ubuntu stand talks, the Flutter desktop talk had an interesting demo, with the Ubuntu person saying all new ubuntu apps are to be Flutter apps.

Tidbit - The ubuntu team is working on Full Multi-window for Flutter desktop for windows, mac and linux.

It draws every pixel, like a 2d game engine. There's Ubuntu package for their Yaru style. https://pub.dev/packages/yaru

Security "Zircon is a capability-based, object-oriented kernel"

"The Zircon system fully isolates processes by default, and must explicitly grant capabilities and resources. Fuchsia passes capabilities and resources by handles rather than name, which leads to a system that only grants software access to what it needs."

https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/principles/secure?h...

If you down load, and build, fuchsia, the fx cmd can list boards and products.

I recall a early goal of fuchsia was to be able to build fuchsia with fuchsia, I wonder when the workstation build will be up to that stage.

fx list-boards arm64 as370 chromebook-x64 * qemu-arm64 qemu-x64 toulouse vim2 vim3 vs680 x64 x64-reduced-perf-variation

fx list-products bringup core terminal workstation

My understanding with toit vm you have can have multiple programmes running and if one crashes, the others continues. The vm, etc, allows live update and or to deploy something new.

If you're interested in hearing Kasper talk about toit, he did a long livestream the other day, the toit bit is at the 1hr 34min mark. https://youtu.be/k7YITNpvcaY?t=5640

The article does answer the question in the title. "Why doesn’t V8 fit on my microcontroller?"

"It is fast, but prohibitively expensive in terms of memory."

So there's no room for v8 on a $2 board, Toit vm and toit language have been designed from the ground up for the iot world.

Tidbit, Dart team did have an iot project called dartino, before flutter took over the dart world.

Anyway the article was posted on the toit website.

I've been following their progress via twitter. https://twitter.com/toitware https://twitter.com/toitlang

Seems with Flutter being open, the growth of flutter outside of mobile was started by others, with it's being picked up by other teams within google and outside of google.

In this podcast, Eric one of the original flutter guys,said desktop and web started by other team with in google. https://twitter.com/darkofabijan/status/1392061926407028740

Teams from Sony, Toyota and Samsung(Tizen) are giving flutter a go on their own. Also the ubuntu guys are active committers to progress flutter desktop.

"But Flutter choosing Dart" Maybe kotlin was a year too late, not making it to 1.0 till February 15, 2016.

The sky project that became flutter was demoed at the April 2015 dart conf. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnIWl33YMwA

As regards Javascript, that's what they started with, they looked at other languages and gave dart a go, it gave them faster startup and the dart team offered them stateful hot reload.

Anyway working in the chrome space, they prob didn't know that Kotlin existed pre 2015 and prob would have gone with Python if could.

Two weeks ago on reddit "Shader precompilation for Metal has landed in Skia:" https://www.reddit.com/r/FlutterDev/comments/mq1ouu/advices_...

and comment from last week on a flutter issue say it's working for them on the master channel. https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/79298#issuecomment...

Ubuntu is doing work on desktop flutter, I recall hearing that they are working on hooking up flutter to accessibility bit of ubuntu.

https://ubuntu.com/blog/flutter-and-ubuntu-so-far

tidbit - there is early support to build linux flutter apps on the raspberry pi. Would be good if android team offered arm builds of their tools, then it would be possible to build for android on the pi.

"Flutter is committed to supporting developers in making their apps more accessible, and includes first-class framework support for accessibility in addition to that provided by the underlying operating system, including:

Large fonts

Render text widgets with user-specified font sizes

Screen readers

Communicate spoken feedback about UI contents

Sufficient contrast

Render widgets with colors that have sufficient contrast"

via

https://flutter.dev/docs/development/accessibility-and-local...

Accessibility is important, have you checked out the flutter docs? https://flutter.dev/docs/development/accessibility-and-local...

>But doesn't it seem reasonable to use TypeScript for flutter now?

Flutter started as an experiment from chrome team, so their first language was JavaScript, when they move to dart they decided to write the whole framework layer in dart, the engine is in C/C++, so it seems there is no going back to a JS world.

https://flutter.dev/docs/resources/technical-overview#layer-...

With the Dart, they got a VM, GC and other tools and a language team that could grow Dart to suit flutter. They also got stateful hotreload, a Dart idea, which was something that the Flutter team didn't know they wanted.

Dart is used by https://flutter.dev/ a Google UI toolkit

Flutter's focus has been mobile apps, but they are working web and desktop.

Dart pad has some flutter demos https://dartpad.dev/

Lars gave a talk last year and said the intent was to put dart vm in chrome, then the whole mobile thing happen and there was no room for extra stuff in chrome. https://youtu.be/mPna6D21Eqg?t=480

Flutter on studio 4 is working fine for me onlinux, just had to enable and upgrade the flutter and dart plugins, only tried on flutter master channel with linux and web devices.

Yeah Flutter's main focus is mobile, they are working on Desktop Flutter, you can try it out on the master channel.

It looks like they are making progress, Chris Sells, a Flutter PM, tweeted

"While things have been delayed on the desktop side for Flutter due to the current crisis, the team has been working hard to bring both Windows and Linux support to alpha. I think you're going to be happy about what you see." https://twitter.com/csells/status/1261036199294062592

If you're running windows, someone found this worked and allows them to run

flutter doctor --android-licenses

https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/16025#issuecomment...

If you just want to try out flutter, I wonder if you can avoid the android stuff by just running on ios and when they are ready the desktop and the web.

> my strong suspicion is the Chrome team killed the idea of shipping a Dart VM in Chrome

Yeah in a video last year, Lars said "then the whole mobile shift happen and there was no room for extra stuff in chrome" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPna6D21Eqg&feature=youtu.be...

They certainly did find a new purpose for Dart outside of it being used in parts of their Ads platform, but Flutter, when is was the chrome experiment called sky, first started out using Javascript.

The chrome guys decided to move on and look at several language before going with Dart, Swift may have been an option, if it was opensource at the time.

Seems a reason for Dart's failure in the web space was mobile.

Lar gave a talk last year about his and Kasper iot startup https://www.toitware.com/ he mentions why dart didn't make it into chrome, saying "then the whole mobile shift happen and there was no room for extra stuff in chrome" https://youtu.be/mPna6D21Eqg

Yeah, the google material people like Flutter, last years flutter conf Keynote was given by VP of Design Matias Duarte https://youtu.be/NfNdXgJZfFo

Would Flutter be where it is today without hotreload? Hotreload was a suggestion form the Dart team, Flutter team tried it and where amazed.

Thanks, have been looking for an update on toitware, had only found a 15 minute video in English by Kasper.

With Dart going down the flutter path, work on the dart iot project, dartino stop. Thanks again, just starting to watch the video now.

Seems like time killed the adoption of Dart into Chrome.

The chrome team had "been wanting to fix Webkit for a very long time, and the Blink fork made that possible"

Moving Blink from ref counting to a traced GC was part of that fix, it also was required to be completed to allow the Dart VM to be added to chrome. What was supposed to take months took years and with no end in sight the Dart team announced that its VM would not ship with chrome.

Lars announces the oilpan project Google I/O 2013. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2850&v=huawCRlo9...

They've made a lot of progress, check out https://flutter.dev/

They're expanding from mobile, ios and android, working on flutter for desktop and web.

They move to the dart language early on in their experiment.

Dart has an online playground https://dartpad.dev which has experimental flutter mode.

Found this flutter hello world! example, don't know how long the link will work. https://dartpad.dev/experimental/embed-new-flutter.html?id=2...

I think V8 belongs in the google camp. "V8 is an open-source JavaScript engine developed by The Chromium Project for Google Chrome and Chromium web browsers."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_(JavaScript_engine)

Seems google does a lot of opensource stuff as well.

https://opensource.google.com/projects/explore/featured

I don't think Flutter is flying under the radar. From a 2018 tweet, which quotes the VP of design at the g.

“Flutter’s ability for real time UI iteration is a game changer in the way we polish and refine designs” - @MatiasDuarte https://twitter.com/FlutterDev/status/994658401132019712

BMW seems happy with flutter and are opensourcing some of their flutter libs.

Quote from CTO Connected Company at BMW

“By combining Dart and Flutter we have the first true cross-platform mobile toolkit; we feel it is a game changer to ensure feature parity for digital touchpoints and IoT. By moving forward with world class tooling, automation and modern functional programming patterns we can improve feature cycle time, security, and cost of delivery of features for the business.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80pRyn7fZRk&feature=youtu.be...

Flutter draws every pixel to screen, supports Tween and Physics-based animations. There are some short widget of the week videos in their docs. https://flutter.dev/docs/development/ui/animations

Some examples of Flutter apps. There is this community list of apps https://itsallwidgets.com/

Also the Flutter team posted the results of their competition to create apps in 5K or less https://medium.com/flutter/the-flutter-create-winners-are-40...

I think the TL for Flutter is no spring chicken, he did an interesting post the other day, talks about what other languages they looked at when they decided to move on from Javascript.

"Flutter was started by engineers from the Chrome team, and myself (who worked in the open source team as editor of the HTML standard)." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19856079