sc0rb

I thought this conversation was great until the downvote happened. So far, the opinions that have been expressed here are pretty good, it got even better when someone that had actually been abused started to share their experiences. Using the combined intelligence of the posters plus the unique perspective and experience of the poster that was abused, I'm sure an intelligent conclusion could have been reached.

The downvote clearly shows that someone here is lacking maturity. Downvoting because you don't like what was said is mindless censorship.

Also, I like your point about emotional investment. I am way too emotionally invested when it comes to drink driving. I lost both parents to a drunk driver and I would happily see hanged any drink driver. This is an emotional response rather than a logical one and this is why people with too much emotional investment shouldn't make the rules. Their input is definitely needed though.

Please please please support Java in all of its glory and let me get rid of Eclipse!!!!!!

Interesting, mine focused very much on higher level stuff like predicate logic and set theory.

A solid computer science education would have helped him understand this. Not required for a 'normal' programmer but the more interesting parts of our trade exist in Computer Science rather than Software Engineering.

I currently work with a few very popular B2C ecommerce platforms and none of them have made the move to this sort of thing yet, the best we've got is Spring MVC with AJAX.

This is the best answer I've received to my concerns. You're predicting that people will move from backend to frontend for the MVC layer (or w/e will come next) and this is why you are keeping up with these sorts of developments.

Good answer.

This functionality is already provided via AJAX. There's no need for me to put the whole MVC later on the client side to achieve this.

You don't need to pull a whole page down to get new data and you can do the form validation on the client side although you need to redo the validation on the server side anyway to make sure the client JS hasn't been tampered with.

So what's the point of making the MVC portion of the application client side when I can just use Spring MVC (or similar) and keep to the same tech stack that the rest of the project is using? Same goes for .NET projects etc?

This feels like a pretty HN style answer.

Is Ember worth learning? Let's see.

It adds no value over anything that we already use or what I see being used elsewhere. It's just another library that doesn't add any significant.

There is not liquid job market with good salaries or day rates with Ember at the moment, you may be able to find one or two roles in London that ask for it but it's certainly not liquid and therefore could not support a contractor.

Embers approach is not radical therefore there's not a lot to learn here. I'm not stuck in a Java rut. You can write modern, slim, fast, concurrent Java. You don't have to be stuck in the days of massive J2EE government projects. The buzz around modern Java in London is massive.

You're right in saying that I could do other things for money but I love software development and I love that people are willing to pay be quite large salaries and day rates to do it. My career isn't money focused but money is a part of it. Why shouldn't I have a big house and holiday often just because I love writing code?

Also, seeing Java devs as being 'stuck in a rut' shows massive ignorance as to what is actually happening in the Java world right now.

So you think that client side JS web apps are 'the way to go'. What's wrong with server side MCV web applications?

How does Ember.js in the clients browser scale when you have a a lot of data that needs marshaling / unmarshaling or generally processing and moving around? Surely it's more performant to do this on the JVM on the server rather than relying on the clients computing power (or lack of). Ideally you wouldn't do a lot of data processing in the MVC part of an app anyway but it seems like you're telling me the whole web app needs to be client side?

No mention of my other criteria I see. Money is an important part of a career. Weddings, houses and children cost money.

So the idea is that Ember may serve to fix one particular problem in my company... I don't see how it's any better than anything else. Just because I can knock out a basic web app in less time doesn't mean it's worth learning, especially when you add learning time into the development time and compare it to the Java equivalent.

Seems to me the use case (and job market) is small.

I wish I was still 22 years old and didn't need to care about earning decent money...

Is Ember.js actually worth learning? Will it make me a better programmer (like learning Haskell will)? Will it enable me to get a pay rise from my current £480 per day contracting fees? Is there a more diverse and active job market than there is around my current main language (Java)?

What's the point of my learning yetAnother.js?

Why the down vote? I'm asking serious questions that as a professional software engineer, I worry about. The two devs next to me have expressed similar feelings when I told them about this article.

Down voting me because you don't like what I said is against the HN guidelines.

I'm saying that this isn't necessarily a great idea, just because it's working for this guy now that doesn't mean we understand it and it could be dangerous.

We'll come back to this story in a few years where your friend has died of some sleep deprivation / exhaustive illness.

Yes, many contractors make very good use of Linkedin to speak with recruiters.

OMFG YOU'RE TOTALLY RIGHT.

The op should have just started an insurance industry disrupting medical insurance startup rather than get paid to work at an already established insurance company where he's somewhat guaranteed(by law) to get paid......

I used to work at a telecommunications company. Maybe I should have created my own telco company so consumers could get cheaper mobile phones instead!?!?!?

You sound like a kid.

Can we stop talking about Ruby programmers as if they are equal to people doing real programming?

Somewhat ironically, he misspelled the word misspelled....

If what you say about the gov seizing money is true, why wouldn't they try and take some sort of legislative control over BTC? Why wouldn't they make it illegal or do some other thing with the law to make it harder to use without running the risk of a knock on the door? No country is just going to stand by and let a new currency disrupt them.

I was in Madrid three weeks ago for work. I took my clients out to dinner and had to pay in cash... It happens often.

The GDP of the country has little to do with credit card use. I was surprised when I went to Australia and discovered that Debit cards are a new thing that required marketing to spread. Credit cards were in wide use but paying for things directly out of your bank account with a card is still relatively new.

Are you one of the many Americans that don't even have a passport never mind exploring anywhere that doesn't take your cheap money?

http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2010/02/17/how-many-americans...

I've been to Spain multiple times. A lot of places didn't even take credit card. Good luck getting people to use an internet currency.

Bitcoin is not ready for prime time yet. I can't wait for some malware to empty everyone's wallets...

I'm guessing most USA based commenters here know nothing about Spain.

In the interest of not being a coward and deleting what I previously said...

I just read his 'about me' section and feel a tiny bit humbled..... not massively though.

The disclaimer at the bottom of the page says it all:

"(Obviously these opinions are my own and of course do not represent the opinions of my future employer)"

He has no real world experience doing anything that matters so just chats about what he's witnessed from within his bubble.

For Java Enterprise / Spring development (or even some of the more lightweight stuff), this editor does not match up to what Eclipse offer.

I want / need to see when dependencies in the code are not resolve at dev time, not compile time. I need to see the call hierarchy on various methods too. Sublime doesn't come close.

If you're using a more lightweight stack where you don't care about errors until you can see them in your browser then maybe this tool is for you (looking at you PHP and Javascript) but for any SERIOUS Java work Sublime is not ready.

It is a beautiful tool though. I wish there were something like this for SERIOUS Java devs.

The Java ecosystem had MVC a long time before .NET and a long time before rails mvc was even conceived. You seem to be missing a chunk of history.

Rails made MVC popular among lesser developers (bottom feeders, small projects, not much money - this may have changed now). A lot of organisations were using MVC as an enterprise design pattern a long time ago.

I think smalltalk devs were using the MVC pattern in the 80's and it's been in various Java enterprise stacks for a very very long time. It seems that everyone else caught up when being a low paid front end 'developer' became cool in the USA.

"Controller Model View Controller (MVC) is one of the most quoted (and most misquoted) patterns around. It started as a framework developed by Trygve Reenskaug for the Smalltalk platform in the late 1970s. Since then it has played an influential role in most UI frameworks and in the thinking about UI design."

- http://www.martinfowler.com/eaaCatalog/modelViewController.h...

I'm sure Rails would be less code and quicker to production. That's not to say that it can't be done quickly in Spring - Java.

The whole 15 min blog thing is a good example of fast Rails, it's also a good example of non production ready i.e. maintainable and extendable, rails.

I agree, it's massively arrogant to think your platform of choice was a real game changer because of your ignorance as to what other people were already doing.

All that stuff by Friday... I can do that in Java / Spring. It will also be high performance, extendable and maintainable.

Rails brought very little to the table in that respect. Not to people who actually know what they're doing anyway.

I wasn't blown away. Nobody on my team was blown away. If you had pretty much no real experience then maybe you were blown away....

I know this and my girlfriend knows this yet I'm still shelling out more than £4000 (pounds) at Tiffany -_-