randomtwiddler
I have several family members that would love to be able to maintain employment but can't because they get pushed out by managers who think they can do better for the wage. And they probably can.
If my brother could keep a job for $4/hr it would give him the honor of work (which he wants/needs), and it would do society good to have more of these people around for us to interact with.
> There is no argument worth addressing. Jordan Peterson is a clinical psychologist, he has no credibility, research, or study in this domain.
Credentials don't make an argument correct. Lack of credentials doesn't make an argument wrong. It's an intellectually dishonest argument to declare something unworthy because you don't like it. If you don't want to participate, then don't, pooping in the thread isn't helpful.
The main difference are that the constraints of EE are a lot clearer than software. From the laws of physics to the lists of available parts and processes to pick from. Then manufacturability and cost.
With software, your instruction set and available system resources/hardware APIs are your only real constraints. Everything else is an abstraction which you can question and rebuild.
Turns out the "correct" way to do things fall out more readily when you have more constraints, particular because we humans are worse at constructing constraints and abstractions than the universe. You get a lot more rope to hang yourself with to use a metaphor.
What movements/teachings/oppressions in society are causing the pressure that results in these kinds of outbursts?
Now it is consolidated under the control of very few.
That doesn't seem like a positive change to me.
What does happen is the hospital bills you $50 for what amounts to a bottle of Tylenol. The insurance provider says no, we only pay $8 for Tylenol, and the hospital relents and charges $8.
If you don't have insurance to call them on their inflated pricing you end up with the rather obscene bill. As an individual you have precious little pull other than, will you discount if I pay it all now? Which they usually will. This depends on having that ability, and 30% off doesn't make up for a 400%+ markup.
But hospitals have to pull a profit despite dealing with tons of regulations and non-paying patients they have to treat anyway. So as a result they bleed who they can, it's a mess.
It's not a conflation, it's intentional because it is what the parent poster claimed. I agree that there is more to it.
> My local car wash now has an app and my wife promptly installed it, because of some vague rewards tracking.
Your wife's anecdote doesn't match industry trends
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/25/majority-of-u-s-consumers-...
I can also match with anecdotes of users intentionally avoiding the app in favor of the mobile site for linked in, Reddit, etc, despite the constant intentionally of crippling the mobile web experience simply because the app is so invasive. Can I have access to your contacts for no good reason? Btw, we also snoop your clipboard. Basically, I want to take over your phone so you can see a message...
App store conversion rates are low. If you do get it installed many users only use it once. Most people just won't pay for apps, various reasons but the race to the bottom and feeding off user data and eyeballs has pretty much had a full cycle now.
If you are a company trying to get off the ground with a software product these are tough trends to fight.
I can only guess, PWAs are like the hidden nugget of gold that devs poop on because it doesn't fit their preferred tools or experience or something.
The other reason that comes to mind is it is much easier to sneak in dark patterns of data collection and spying with native. Web is expected to degrade gracefully when denied permissions.
> PWAs/web was immediately discarded as an option because we didn't believe we could deliver the level of UX excellence we're targeting.
Seems odd. Web interfaces are very very good for pretty much any information display. They have their limits too. But unless you have a specific requirement that actually hits those limits this particular reason seems hollow to me.
> Nor did we believe that PWAs would be any easier to develop and maintain than two native apps.
This one is, frankly, deluded. Both app routes have significantly more upkeep than web. API churn and app store processes come first to mind. Not to mention three code bases vs one that could also be your website, which you need anyway.
> We're still considering React, but I feel like we're inevitability going to end up building a full native experience.
> Generally speaking, I feel that PWAs and the web have a long way to go in terms of tooling
Wow, I doubt you have any real experience with react native tooling, which is infinitely worse that web tooling. And even tries ( poorly) to replicate web tooling.
Seriously, a platform that comes with full debugging suite in "developer tools" in the browser has no equal in any systems I've built before. How many runtimes can you name that come bundled with full dev and inspection tools? Nicely separated out layout, code, and network. You can sit down to any dev, QA, or customer system and have the full inspection suite at your finger tips.
There seems to be a heavy pro native bias. Don't get me wrong, there are reasons to pick native, but I see very few people laying out good analysis behind their choices. Oh-well, competitive advantages for me.
There is no evidence of your second claim in the link. Only that mobile, as a platform, is more popular than desktop. Nothing about "native apps" being the preferred way to interact with the platform. This is an oft proffered point with no solid backing. Rather the opposite. Users rarely, if ever, install apps, but they go to websites.
Getting stuck still happens. The real difference between what I face now and early in my career is that I have developed a sense for when to plow through, when someone else might know the answer, and when to route around.
Plowing through usually means it's not worth interrupting someone else. Or when the business itself, or other teams are in the way.
Asking questions because you don't know requires humility and it's best to have it even as a senior. Just ask, and do it sooner rather than later. You will learn faster than banging your head on the wall - there will be plenty of other problems to do that for.
Some problems aren't worth the pain. I could solve this, but should I? It saves the business lots of money to occasionally route around the problem.
It isn't the only solution out there. You can publish to the various app stores and abide by all their rules and regulations and upkeep requirements.
You can be confined to Linux desktop.
You can still get to the desktop via your own distribution. You can also side load Android and avoid the store.
Browser apps are, by far, the easiest.
Robbery is to steal under threat of force. Give me your wallet or I break your knee caps. That's a robbery.
You don't "rob" when nobody is home.
Some developers and teams don't need the crutches. Type systems are also an encumbrance that comes with a non zero amount of issues. They slow development velocity down for a theoretical trade-off boon.
I've seen a type system take down a production system where a simple coercion would have functioned just fine. Literally the only thing wrong was the type defined and the code refused to run.
2) Assumes facts not in evidence. This is not a universal opinion.
3) Still has the gate keepers, yet another platform to write for, etc etc. Lower friction might help vs PWAs, that's something at least.
4) Assumes facts not in evidence.
5) Showing your ignorance here. Front end has been stable for a while. Old stuff still works if you prefer it. Lots and lots of sites still do.
The mobile shill is real... There are reasons to pick mobile over something else. But just shilling the tool and showing your tech bigotry isn't a good way to pick solutions. I'm out.
Everyone wants web apps to help sell hardware, right up until your app store grows into a money maker. Then the incentives are different.
Regardless, today's mobile systems are much better, web browsers are much better. It is much easier to write a web app that is functionally identical to native than it used to be.
Modern reality. Conversation rates for PWAs are higher than mobile apps because there is less friction in the installation process. Load times are often lower, which can be an overall superior experience. If I'm a small shop, trying to get on someone's mobile device, these items matter a lot. Also development costs are much lower when you can share code for your mobile app and your website.
The value add of being in the mobile stores is pretty minimal. Discovery is poor, search is poor, then there is constant churn in policies, submission process, APIs, development environments/languages, fees, etc. In contrast to this, the browsers hold very very high backwards compatibility. Churn will be in the support libraries or framework you adopt and not fundamental to the platform.
All this functionality is already available for apps including the security model. Nothing new is happening here. App security is an issue, but it's one big tech is already dumping resources into solving.
But, frankly, browsers have some of the best management features for culling analytics, telemetry, watching the traffic and requests being made. It's many times easier for me to see what a web app is doing on the network, and write something to stop it, as compared to a native app.
The snark keeps me from even wanting to engage you...
Think of it this way. When feature parity of browser sandbox closes on everything a desktop app might want, you no longer need to build with electron but can simply ship 5-15MB of js+css and use the stock browser instead.
Similar on mobile.
Which will result in: Smaller downloads. Lower memory footprint. Faster launch.
For the small guys, that's the ballpark as I understand it also.
And I agree with you. That's the #1 item when building online infrastructure.
I was addicted to porn for decades. I didn't always look or watch it but it was tied to lust which I fed and fed.
Crawling out of the deep dark pit was hard, really hard. Probably the hardest thing I've ever done. I had a supportive spouse that supported me and helped me, which was a big help. I'm now free over 6 years and have a pretty good view.
Only after I had loosed the last few hooks in my soul did I begin to see what my life was missing. How it had contributed to my shame, hollow worthlessness, and straight up selfishness. How my "love" for my spouse was a pitiful thing that finally bloomed into something real.
You don't need a study too see the effects, just one person who's walked the path can tell you what they were and what's different.
People who are addicted can't see what they are missing as they usually got involved so young they don't remember not feeling that way. Often they know our at least feel that something is wrong. But they can't really see the whole of it either without the real perspective of the other side.
Ignore your fellows ringing the warning bells at your peril.
A lot of open source projects die when their corporate investor closes shop. The community is often just dependants who want to use the tech but don't have the ability to keep it running. And it is usually not big enough to come up with the funding for a foundation to run maintenance and development.
Flutter is very ambitious as a project. I have more direct experience with other similar projects like react native, which really struggles despite the investments.
I would hate to invest precious years into tech and apps to have the rug pulled out from under me because flutter entered the Google graveyard.
They do have competent engineers, and if they get sufficient community buy-in, I'll be much more open to it.
I'm the opposite of everything about this post. A very experienced dev (>20 years professional experience) that has moved primarily to the front end recently in my career (gradually over 4 years). I won't touch flutter simply because the sole vendor and essential dependency is Google.
Fads are present in every corner of development. As is "not invented here" or the general draw to green field.
Hard work and effort is good and helpful for the individual and society.
Pride, which can be an artifact of such work, is harmful to the individual and society. Pride can also be found in the poor, in political philosophies, sports, etc etc. It is ugly and destructive everywhere it is found.
Finally, in the narrative is also the philosophy that you can't really help who you are. Which ignores or at least minimizes your personal choices and ability to change. You can choose to work hard, it may be difficult where it doesn't come naturally - but that effort can still be made and improvements accomplished.
There is certainly some providence involved in high degrees of success. Not everyone is going to be able to reach the 5th sigma on the top end through sufficient effort. It shifts which curve you're in, it does not not place you on the curve where you'd necessarily prefer to be.