noodletheworld
Are you measuring the right metric?
This feels like an on going lack-of-understanding in the industry.
In manufacturing, economies of scale and automation work because you're physically making more objects and objects inherently have value.
For software, making more software doesn't mean you can sell more units of software. The unit price of selling existing software is already 0. Economies of scale do not exist.
The OP says: net business output is not up as a result of AI.
So:
…if your team is doing more work and being more productive…
That just means the productivity of your team (or software teams in general) maybe doesn't have a meaningful business impact.
You should be worried if so. That means productivity = work force reduction (reduce fixed costs for the business).
Hyperbole much?
This is a direct response to AI slop destroying a community; what’s your solution to the AI spam problem?
Including the text for chat-bot only wasn’t an if statement.
If it had been an if statement, it wouldn’t be invisible to humans: it would just be visible. Period. There’s no need to display none.
Display none is for humans.
This was intended, without any need remotely to doubt it, to hide the text from humans.
Was it just incompetent implementation? Or nefarious? Who knows? Perhaps? …but there’s no universe this was ever intended to just be for chat bots.
Thats just obviously nonsense. It wasn’t a bug.
It was deliberate.
..
> Again, some of these are speculative and some should be given little weight.
You can drop this right off the top of HN when the OP blatantly acknowledges that their entire post is BS.
“Oh, you can’t critique me, I said these were just speculative…”
…which, in a normal sane world, would affect the stock price?
2 trillion is a lot. I’m skeptical, for the same reasons listed in the report.
Its has nothing to do with Dario, and mostly to do with Chinese open weight models.
If you dislike the micro required, thats fine, but just because it doesnt suite your preference doesn't mean its bad or clunky.
Just say “I dont like it”.
Thats fine.
If you want to “get” it, devote a few days to playing online multiplayer.
Sure. I still use mine though; privately and at work.
> Nobody is going to use their tools in five years.
> they're dead. Just like half the people expecting to still be writing code by hand.
Hyperbole much. Leave it on LinkedIn man.
Who knows?
5 years is a long time.
They're trying to navigate the AI era just like everyone else.
You know what we got told at work? “Scrappy AI startups are snapping at our heels, we need to move fast so the competition doesn't over take us”
…but if you ask: what startups? Silence. If you ask, why are we scared of some teenager vibe coding a platform and stealing our customers? Silence.
Dont question the narrative.
Of course AI is an existential threat. Of course there are vibed startups trying to eat our market.
Have you not seen our share price?
Such hyperbolic BS. Ffs. Calm down.
You’ll get “something” but what you get is certainly not going to be what you wanted.
Look, its not complicated:
1) be precise in what you want
2) have a feedback loop to verify it.
3) check in often, not once a day.
> Migrate the payment endpoints from the old client to the new one. Done means: every endpoint uses the new client, the old client is deleted, and the test suite passes.
What end point? What test suite? What is a client?
Maaaaybe the model can infer it from your code, but look, if a human taking that jira ticket would go: what does this mean? …then your model (yes, even 5.5) is going to make a bunch of assumptions.
Correct assumptions? Maybe. Maybe not. …but do you really want to find that out hours later?
Just say:
> Plan out the following as a set high level tasks: …
Then, review the plan and tell it to execute the plan, maybe something like; after each step, ensure the code base compiles and the tests pass.
Then, come back after one hour and make sure it’s on the right track.
Poorly specified long running tasks is a recipe for “rollback all those changes…”
Is a concept the author needs to get over.
> The ideal would be "across my entire computer and applications, what are the recent files I have interacted with" and expand that out to include emails and Teams/Slacks and everything. I should be able to see everything going on with my machine, search through it and not care if its stored inside of Slack or iCloud or whatever. Single pane of glass.
Nope. This would be great if it worked.
This idea of getting rid of the file system is very old, tired and has failed. And failed. And failed.
…and you know apps hate? Letting you out of their walled gardens.
> Microsoft tried it, people didn't like it,
Yup.
> but I think the concept makes sense.
Nope.
You’re going to have to do better than trying this again.
Something something local LLM? Mm.
It’s a Hard Problem. The kind of problem that random engineers look at and go “doesn’t seem that hard, I could do that in a weekend”.
…
> In the interest of full disclosure I think this is gonna take many weekends of work to even get a functional demo running. So I'll do my best, but be patient.
Okay, to be fair, the author did acknowledge that it’s a lot of work and it’s hard; and I look forward to seeing the result, because experiments in this space are interesting, the idea of a visual tmux maybe has some legs…
…but I think this project is too ambitious to succeed.
Not being the default isn't what stops these concept desktops from taking off; it’s that people don’t like them.
No file system, you just get “tasks” and an LLM to pray to and hope you get your data from?
:/ I don’t think it’ll fly.
…trust me bro.
It’s obviously easier to believe when they’re not training models.
Eh, anyway this whole thing is just an ad:
> Looking to take Ember-1 one step further, and optimize it for your use case? We are also launching training support for Ember-1, enabling enterprises to build customized, token-efficient models tailored to their needs with their own data. The future of open models is specialized models trained on your specific workload.
Probably, I guess, fancy serverless infrastructure actually makes virtually no difference to hosting really large models that people want to use, and “just” being an inference provider for open weight models turns out to have no moat.
So this is a bit of a pivot to “use our training infrastructure too…!” imo.
Pivot? Sure. Go them. Not what I signed up for though. /shrug
Like what?
I’m not making a sweeping generalisation here about how people play games. We’re talking about chrono cross.
For a story driven JRPG like CT / CC specifically, if you don’t care about the characters or story, there is no reason to achieve any goal in the game.
I’m not so proud I can’t admit to being wrong; but in a JRPG there is no game without the character driven story. If you imagine replacing Kid and Serge with cardboard cutouts labeled A-san and B-san, what are you enjoying about the game?
You like coding, but not the algorithms.
You like books but not the story.
This isn't “I will play it my way”; its heres a BS reason why legitimate critique can be dismissed out of hand.
“Oh, but for me its not about of the food tastes good”
Ok. Sure. You do You.
…but if someone says: that meal was rubbish and tasteless, is it so outrageous to call out “but I don't care about the taste” as incomprehensible nonsense to the majority of people?
Am I being outrageous here?
What does the the “rp” stand for in rpg?
You tell me.
> Personally I don't care much about stories in games
I cant relate to this.
Chrono trigger is a game I love because of the great story.
If you’re playing rpgs and you don't care about the story or characters…
I have no idea. Its like reading a book and saying you don't enjoy the story; you're what, just there for the physical motion of turning the pages?
No idea. Chrono cross left no impression on me. I agree with the parent post.
Things people want to be awesome and true, and things that are actually awesome and true don't intersect the way people want them to.
…so if there was an easy way to do provably correct AI code, it would be nice.
…but I’d also like a frontier that runs on my raspberry pi and a cheap fully autonomous self driving car that just uses a single cell phone camera.
Unfortunately wanting those doesn't make them exist; and people telling you they do exist usually are either a) uninformed, or b) selling something.
> The rules governing the prizes describe the process for evaluating what has been achieved and for assigning credit. The process is deliberately unhurried, but we will provide updates.
I think “you don’t get anything straight away for rushing your AI into the maths problems, not even credit” aligns pretty fairly with what the fields medalists are concerned with.
Seriously though, when the api providers start blacklisting cursor and they’re forced to swap to open weight models…
If that happens, what even is the difference between openrouter and cursor?
Don't complain to me if someone responds using a stupid metaphor that proves the opposite of the point they were trying to make.
You cant just go “oh hey, I guess they're both cars so I’m taking your lexus away, catch a cab its cheaper” and expect people to just hug you be be like “yay, thanks! I still have a job I guess! :party:”
:P
Yes. Categorically. Anyone who tells you otherwise and that luna is “just as good” does not know what they are talking about.
Going from sol to luna is a downgrade.
It is not a question, it is a fact.
> Is sol actually worth the extra cost?
Is a question only you can answer, because it has no generic answer.
Right now, for me, being able to use sol is worth the cost, but using it all the time is not.
I’m sure going from using it to using luna feels rubbish; but there are realities about costs you have to face sooner or later.
Maybe like… give your team credits and make them pick the right tool for the job; and if they burn their credits on sol in 20 minutes, well, tough luck buddy, looks like you're coding by hand for the rest of the month.
Team will quickly shift. People hate losing access to ai.
You can’t just “spin Claude up in slack”; it can’t magically just connect to GitHub and your code.
I presume this feature basically is like… if you’re already using your agents in cloud hosted runtimes, then you can connect to those agents like you already are, but via slack.
…
Did I misunderstand?
This seems like a non feature; if you’re bring to want it, you can’t have it because you have to setup Complicated External System, and if you’re already using cloud hosted agents, you’re already using it (eg. Claude tag or whatever).
So it’s what… a diff viewer in slack? An agents tab so slack becomes like cursor?
The videos seem enormously light on examples of how it actually works, did someone find a more detailed example of usage to show why you want this?
Theres clearly no meaningful thought behind a comment like this, and all it does is stir up engagement for laughs.
The comment thread clearly shows this isn't a meaningful discussion, it’s people shouting past each other.
How can AI be bad? I only see good things! :troll face: it must be a woke left thing! :troll face:
Come on.
Without an active harness (eg. Appium) that can end-to-end deterministically verify the changes you make continue to work correctly it is almost impossible to continue to keep the same pace on the app.
Unsupervised LLMs (even fabel) are categorically incapable of running parallel unsupervised mobile app feature development.
That is my personal, first hand experience working in a team in this space.
What you are (I guess?) experiencing is user-in-the-loop light touch LLM development where you can 80% most tasks quite quickly (much faster than without assistance!) with a small number of human developers working on largely unrelated features and manually verifying they are correct and manually fixing the platform specific issues you encounter.
Maintaining a strong appium end-to-end test suite is still extremely challenging with notifications and maps.
Honestly, it blows my mind you could even being to claim that of all things, native apps using obscure languages like swift are suitable for this, compared to the much much easier path of web + react.
You might say “yeah yeah, but one month? Come on!”
…but have you actually seen how much code fabel can write in a month?
Its a lot.
So sure, you say, work at a slower pace. Don't just endlessly run a frontier model in unsupervised feature development mode.
Yes… you see, thats the point. Thats what the op is saying.
Move more slowly, and you can avoid building a spaghetti castle (ok sure! If you dont wanna, maybe don't retype every character by hand, but the point of that practice is not upping your wpm typing speed. :p It is to take the time to think, design and collaborate, not rush rush rush)
Pi has a nice guide on it (https://pi.dev/docs/latest/llama-cpp) and it is really not that hard.
How is that hypocrisy? Self hosting is somehow anti AI? Its not anti AI. Its literally using AI!
…and honestly, at a higher technical level than slapping your wallet against a token provider and running prompts in a hosted sandbox you can't even see the prompts in.
Times change.
Free services owe no one, anything. If you are joining a community, be respectful.
If you're not, and you get banned, that sucks. If it causes a whole category of your peers to be banned that sucks too.
…but its a bit rich to say, oh yeah, the promises you made before LLMs were a thing didn't include a note saying “except if you spam AI generated code”.
Come on.
They dont owe anyone anything.
Certainly not for some comment from ten years ago.
This could entirely legitimately be a case of “was this decision made the right way according to their own decision making process?” … but “is it ok for then to have made this decision?”
Yes. Its fine. It’s their platform. They can do whatever they want.
Do you work with lots of companies and see large AI success stories?
Or do you just vibe that you personally find AI useful so it must also be a business success?
Look, I honestly don’t care, but I think “it must be false” is also unsubstantiated hyperbole. If an agency says they see no AI success, I see no particular reason to believe they’re lying.
They’re not saying AI can’t be a success. They’re saying they haven’t seen it. That matches my experience too. Proven AI success stories seem… vague, when you dig into the details, in my personal experience.
It doesn’t seem surprising to me.
If you slap chat GPT on a tablet or a website or a watch or a smart fridge you can make a song and dance about how great it is.
…but bluntly, it would have been impressive 20 years ago.
It is not impressive today; at least, not to me. I’m not 6.
Did you show them the github repo, or the disappointing 5 second video of chat gpt from twitter?
I was excited too until I saw it actually running and was like… huh. ChatGPT for tablet. Righto.
What was your son so impressed by?
Those two things are the opposite of each other (evidence, but only anecdotally; you cant be both).
Anyway.
More tangible to your argument; what is your argument that this will be more effective than just prompt engineering?
Ive long believed that prompt engineering is a losers game; if there is a trivial set of tricks that improve the output, they will simply be automatically applied.
We see this playing out with the system prompts in coding agents and image gen.
The value of learning “photo realistic studio lighting…” was non existent. The nano banana api is capable of taking a naive prompt and expanding it with these tricks.
People who devoted themselves to learning these “magical incantations” wasted their time and effort; and it was obvious, from the beginning this would be true.
Now.
With managing agents; if a trivial set of management tricks can drastically improve the results, why are you better off learning them now, rather than waiting for them to be baked into cursor/codex/claude in easy mode?
What makes you believe this is a valuable investment in time and effort?
Even if we accept that right now assigning personas to agents and managing them as a manager yields good results, the horizon for change right now is so short, it seems extraordinary to suggest mass management and leadership training for engineers.
We should just wait and see.
All in investments like this would just be tokenmaxing in a funny hat.