nadmone

Most of those people aren't using Signal but the Signal Protocol. When people say they want different identities, infrastructure or clients what they are essentially saying is they want to use the Signal Protocol but they aren't Facebook. They can't spent millions on development and maintenance so instead they want to integrate with the existing ecosystem.

Signal being successful because it is implemented by different parties and therefor used by many people seems more a counterargument to the state of Signal because it would suggest that Signal would be better if more people could use it for more things.

No, the phone numbers are in the second sentence of my first comment. The exploits are in the sentence after as an explanation to why it was bad to use phone numbers. And that is only one example to make it a reasoned argument. Other such points can be found in the video.

I am happy to argue the points but don't make up some characterization. It wasn't "then", "now" or "shifting". I've made the same points all along.

I didn't say it did. The post I replied to, which wasn't you, is arguing that Signal is successful. Therefor it is highly relevant whether it actually is. I don't know which goalpost you are talking about.

> Signal is a stunning success.

That is what those criticizing it disagrees with, at least in that area. It is not a stunning success at letting you communicate with someone without disclosing a phone number.

> If you or anyone does better I will cheer and yell about your success often.

And that is what people are criticizing about the ecosystem when they say that it is hard to run your own client or infrastructure.

> Firstly citation needed please.

Search "zero-click iMessage exploit" and pick your favorite source.

> Secondly, great, should they have been using email and pgp? Or google chat?

Most already do because Signal doesn't really cater to other use cases. When people say they want federation or different clients it is often because they want to replace things like e-mail.

It is pretty easy to say it is good if you dismiss anyone saying it isn't as bitching. Signal was insisting everyone using a phone number as identifier. We now know there were zero-click iMessage exploits being used by oppressive governments to target politicians, journalists and activists. All they needed was your phone number. It is slightly more complex than that but still you do the math.

It was always required but not illegal. Which made it impractical but still an option not to do so. It wasn't uncommon for people living with their friend, partner or in a bad neighborhood to remain registered somewhere else. Now it is illegal and people actually get sentenced in court for living a month with their girlfriend without letting the government know. And it is already being selectively enforced against those the government doesn't like but can't prosecute for something else.

You might not like it but it is true. Finland had a plan to join NATO in case they felt they had to. And when that happened they had plenty of political and public debates and support. Sweden's plan was to cooperate with Finland. In the declaration of government from late last year it was declared that Sweden shouldn't join NATO. So when Finland wanted to join NATO Sweden no longer had a plan and therefor without convincing debate or support also requested to join NATO.

This is important because laws, policy and principles aren't worth much if you can quickly change them. Sweden has shown itself capable of changing fundamental things if it is sufficiently freaked out. And to do so without much resistance or recourse. As Sweden had no alternatives, and with many even stating so publicly, it also isn't in much of a position to resist demands from the US or other countries like long standing members would. It is likely that Sweden will become a "Nine Eyes" country like Denmark which has resulted in numerous incidents for them in recent years.

And these are not the only examples. It's everything from Swedish police using teargas for the first time in history with barely anyone noticing to not being able to publish scenic drone footage without approval.

I think it is increasingly likely they will have to shut down (or at least move) the company to remain principled. Just in recent years Sweden haphazardly requested to joined NATO (and is kowtowing to Turkey), sim cards started requiring registration and it became illegal not to register where you live. And there is very little in terms of developments, politics or people to suggest that it will stop anytime soon.