mtpn
I'm sorry for all the pains you have been through.
Yes, people assume things based on how you express yourself, and what you choose to mention or not. This is normal. Especially when you leave room for ambiguity. What the other person gets from your words is the words themselves plus their own baggage and assumptions. This feature of language is a lot of the problem, and why I would encourage people to take pains to be more clear with their words.
I'm not really trying to argue with you. I'm trying to give you a perspective that I think you should consider, but instead what you do is react, if not overreact, to each piece of information. I don't want you to agree, all I want is that you maybe understand, and accept that people who are different to you might see everything, including your words, differently, and that you might want to accommodate those people even though they are "wrong" in your view.
By oversimplifying, I mean simplifying so much that essential steps are omitted, thus the simplification becomes untrue.
I'm not, of course, saying that choice and resolve are not important parts of change. Just that people who currently don't have the resolve to follow through on what they need to do, and can't see all the reasons, need to know that that is a part of what depression feels like. And they are not to blame for having nothing in the tank right then. You need choice, motivation, determination/trying hard and opportunity - either some spiritual fuel, a break in the fog, a close call that scares you, maybe the right medication or therapy, or just random luck, whatever it is that gives you a foothold and a little bit of light. You need to know that this opportunity is coming, eventually, and you can get yourself out. That clear moment in time you talk about can't be forced through deciding things.
Anyhoo, I hope I have managed to be clear enough about why I think your post is not effective as advice, and potentially harmful. I think Andy Richter does a decent job of tweeting about depression in this thread: https://twitter.com/andyrichter/status/931546890901925888
And I actually see a lot of writing that is brief but still strikes me as effective. Brevity itself is not your obstacle. You might just have a really strong conviction that you know best.
We're early in our understanding of human behavior. Many of our ideas are wrong. Everything is hard to test. But though the book has flaws and should be evaluated again (would love to see it rewritten), I still think there is usefulness in the models he suggested. And in behavioral economics in general. I think we're far away from having enough replicated studies to be really "sure" of anything, especially with this crisis, but moving in a reasonable direction.
It seems like you don't know how your first post got me thinking "try harder" so I want to highlight the things you said that gave me this impression.
>I was determined to end this trend, no matter what. After a few months (literally) of me not raising my voice, unless it was totally and completely justified (which I discovered was very rare) I could then say to my kids (and wife), I expect you to talk nice and decently to eachother, and as soon as they accused me of being grouchy, I pointed out that I hadn't been for months, and something changed, everyone started to listen to me, even when I talked quietly.
- Your determination seems to be the key factor in how you tell this. You made a choice and tried really hard to to follow through.
> I've become a morning person, I started jogging about 5 years ago (I hated exercise), I stopped eating white sugar in 1995 (because it was controlling me like a narcotic), and I have worked on many of my other bad habits and traits. I think anyone can change anything.
- this is a list of great accomplishments but avoids expressing that any of this was difficult. Just that anybody can change anything. I disagree, but so far we are just talking about behavior changes, you haven't mentioned depression yet, so fair enough.
> We just need enough of a reason to do something, and then we can do it.
- This is where I think you are just plain wrong. It oversimplifies the situation. Dismisses the many factors that effect motivation and mental health.
> The trick seems to be, can you make up your own reasons? I know we can.
- this is your own personal framework that worked for you. To my mind, reasons require logic to be available to the person.
> (also I defeated crippling life long depression, food addictions, weight loss, and few other things many people want to label "diseases" we have no cure for or control over, I call bologna on that, we can change anything
- This is where you bring up depression, which was my main problem. You put quotes around "diseases" and call bologna on the whole list, again offering that that "anyone" can change anything, presumably using that single method you have described. "Have a reason, make a choice, be determined." It's so dismissive, and I believe it's inherently false, plus it also sounds like it's not even what you really think?
You didn't, in the first post, mention anything at all about asking for help, or going through periods where you could not help yourself or change at the time. You only suggested that if the person thinks right, they can change literally anything.
People feel such guilt when they are engaged in behavior that hurts the people they love, and watch themselves make the bad choices in spite of knowing better. Family members wonder how their parent could ever sure by suicide, unless they hated their family. Etc etc. Reasons, alone, are not sufficient.
That depends on who is listening, which is why, initially, I urged care to be taken in how we frame these things. On the internet we don't know who is reading or what they need to get better. At the right moment, for the right person, your advice could be just what they need, but at the wrong moment, it could add to their despair. Because we can't choose who is reading.
I don't know about "meant to". I avoided writing anything but plain HTML and CSS for years because I thought I wasn't a programming type person (wasn't smart in the right way, didn't like math, hit brick walls with basic as a teenager, etc). The terminal did nothing for me and still isn't my favorite place to be, but I do really like writing little web apps that solve problems and work. Programming, like most things, is available to anybody who wants to do the work to understand it and can put in the hours to get competent.
I see the risk in Scratch turning some kids off and would never suggest just providing anybody with one option for how to learn a skill. But I don't know about this "meant to program" idea. I'm more in favor of fostering the curiosity that can fuel real learning by any means that work.
> If you do that, it's not possible to be depressed. If you try this and it doesn't work, keep worrying about other people more than yourself until it does.
To be fair, they may well think you are referring to them, because of your words here and how you don't seem to acknowledge the reality of their condition:
> also I defeated crippling life long depression, food addictions, weight loss, and few other things many people want to label "diseases" we have no cure for or control over
Sometimes really all the person can do is avoid suicide for another day. That's the only choice available. To keep living or not. Traditional logic is not available to the suicidal person at that point. Only depression logic, and as the saying goes: depression lies. People who love their families end up feeling that their family would be better off without them dragging them down and instead of asking for a hug, they kill themselves. Depression blinds you to what your options really are, and what the truth is. You can't rationalize your way out of it with facts because depression destroys facts and replaces them with the conviction that you aren't worth anything.
> But for everyone else, I hope they can see that real change is possible, and ignore all the neigh sayers that will give them an excuse not to try.
I agree with you that the availability of an illness to be used as an excuse for poor choices comes with some baggage. And many people can improve their quality of life and relationships through making better choices in what to do, and allowing those better choices the time to accumulate into meaningful change. I am proud of you for improving life for you and your family.
In terms of professional help, I do believe it starts with taking and listening to a therapist and trying to create change based on thinking differently. It often works. If that fails, a trial-and-error journey with medication begins. If that also fails, the person is screwed until further notice, or they can try a bunch of experimental things. All of this is only possible if they can afford the costs of therapy and treatment, which is by no means a given.
Please be cautious about making such statements. I respect your experience and success at changing things for yourself with this model. I don't for a second doubt your sincerity. But the belief that a depressed/addicted person could get better if they just tried harder is part of a very dangerous feedback loop when you are down. You can't control everything you experience or the feelings you have. You can, sometimes, control your interpretation and response to those things, if you are careful. You can do everything right and still not be able to break the cycle. We're all different, I'm glad this worked for you but it doesn't necessarily follow that your approach would help others.
Come to think about it, why not the movable type printing press as the starting point?
I was probably wrong to try and fuzzily remember an anecdote rather than look it up :) but my understanding was that in a proportional font the combination of a period and space was good enough to show the end of the sentence clearly for whatever reason.
> It sends a signal to me that a person looks for bizarre ways to feel superior to others, instead of trying to understand why someone behaves differently.
This is fair. Though I promise I don’t feel superior to pretty much anybody if that helps. Learning about this actually came from wondering why some people used two spaces after sentences, not starting out judgmental. I think I was mainly thinking of formal contexts where you would already be judging somebody's choices (resume, professional portfolio, publications) more so than just random language use in comments or whatever. But I didn't put my finger on that last night!
I had this uneasiness writing my own comment and reading your comment, and did some actual reading this morning, and this turns out to be one of those things where the story I absorbed about it was too simple. There seems to be ongoing debate about this just like everything else, and even though most publishers and editors prefer 1 space after a sentence. I had though I heard that spaces after periods actually render a little wider anyway but that seems to be wrong?
I knew I worded my comment kind of badly and probably shouldn’t have made it in the first place. But at lest posting it helped me get corrected on my assumptions.
I realize this is a side note to a side note, but I think the attractiveness of this stereotype is a problem. I wonder if your prior judgements/experience lead you to misread the parent post and put them in that readily-available “hipster” box, where you could then safely roll your eyes at them for a point that I don’t think they were actually trying to make.
My favorite thing about grid is that using grid overrides floats, so you can have a kind-of-ok floated layout as a fallback on browsers that don’t support grid, and it’s very little work to do so.
But approval is not needed. These videos are pretty much textbook examples of legally-protected fair use of the content they discuss. The labor necessary to get such content through the gates at YouTube is stifling others who can’t dedicate the kind of time needed to skirt their overzealous copyright protections.