mattparas

Thanks! I'll trying plugging this in

They're using hash array mapped tries. I don't have my own personal implementation, I have been using https://github.com/bodil/im-rs until I can get around to making my own implementation (not that I really need to, but it would be a fun exercise).

Functions generate a hash based on a unique id generated for the function, plus the hash of any captured variables, and a hash of the pointer address to the function). That is off the top of my head though so I could be missing some details.

Hashing maps is tricky! With a sufficiently deep hash map you can run into problems since that invokes an equality check as well - at least how I handle it, is that you just attempt to naively hash the keys and values of the hash map, to create a hash code for that object. If the equality check ends up with a sufficiently large depth, eq returns false so we don't stack overflow.

I learned to code primarily through school - I had the privilege of studying at Northwestern where a lot of the Racket people teach, so my first programming class was in Racket. I have worked through some of SICP and How to Design Programs. After Racket I learned some C, C++, and C#. Then taught myself python just independently doing some projects, ended up back taking a few classes in Racket, then one in Agda that got me down the programming language rabbit hole. Took a class in Rust and that got me working on Steel.

I haven't _directly_ used scheme professionally except for some steel scripts for automating some work flows and some racket programs for spark query plan analysis. I'd like to work in scheme more in my professional work, but for now I'm quite happy just working on it for fun.

Contributions are welcome! Feel free to either join the discord and ask questions there if you want a more chat based place, or open a discussion on github if you'd like to learn more. I have it on my TODO list to set up a matrix chat, just haven't gotten around to it - so apologies for having discord as the only chatroom.

At least for me, there is a certain appeal in building the world. With scheme you get a very small set of functionality, but you use that to implement the rest of the language, and build abstractions on top of abstractions. Seeing how the whole system can be built from a small set of functionality is pretty cool, and also very satisfying. There is a talk from Andy Wingo, one of the maintainers of Guile, where he describes working on Guile as akin to tending to a garden, and I think its an apt comparison. Something about it feels very organic and personal, which is part of the appeal.

The syntax itself doesn't _really_ matter, it just makes it easy to do so - functions and syntax visually look the same, so it makes it easy to build.

Its not for everyone, but I think its worth exploring for a little bit. Similarly I think its worth really learning any language just a bit, if not to just expand your tool kit. The parenthesis do disappear at a certain point and you learn to read it, but if its not your thing that is fine.

Ah yes I remember seeing that when it was posted on HN - I think Steel predated that post by a few years :)

All of the work done by the guile folks is incredible, I wouldn't mind the name clash at all if there is a Guile steel that comes about.

Originally started it as a school project, which then during the pandemic morphed into something to work on while cooped up. It is really a passion project, working on it is fun! There are some interesting design things I wanted to explore, like how to get good performance out of safe Rust, using unrolled linked lists or vlists instead of naive linked lists, using contracts, etc.

Chibi is an impressive scheme implementation, and it will take a long time before Steel can hit the same level of compliance as Chibi. There is not a Chibi equivalent in native Rust that I am aware of. There are other embedded scripting languages for Rust that are pleasant - but no schemes of the maturity of Chibi. So in that regard, I'm hoping to offer a compelling scheme in native Rust to make integration with Rust applications relatively easy and painless.

I also don't have a particularly strong need to be 100% completely compliant with the scheme specs. The plan is to have compatibility layers so that portable scheme code can be used, however there are things about scheme that I think Racket (for example) improved on, and I'd like to explore that as well as much as I can.

Starting with R5RS compliance, then once that is achieved moving on to R7RS.

I borrowed the R5RS test suite from chibi here - https://github.com/mattwparas/steel/blob/master/cogs/r5rs.sc... - only a few of these tests don't yet pass. Something like 135 pass, 4 fail, 20 skipped since I haven't implemented the primitives yet.

I've only tested against a few SRFIs so far, but am also attempting to run the R7RS benchmark suite https://ecraven.github.io/r7rs-benchmarks/ - So far you can view the progress here https://github.com/mattwparas/steel/tree/master/r7rs-benchma...

There are some more that aren't yet checked in. I plan to get a document up with the exact state of compliance soon.

The biggest difference right now is that, like Racket, Steel lists are immutable, so there I need a compatibility layer when running portable scheme.

Not at all! I agree it is a useful feature, I'd be curious how much it is necessary if not using any mutation, but the best way for me to find out is to try it out :)

Thank you - I appreciate the kind words :)

Yep - you can write standalone steel code without interacting with Rust at all, just interacting with the interpreter. I've done the first few days of the advent of code in Steel without needing to touch any Rust. Now, I will say that Steel has gotten visibility faster than I've been able to keep up with, so you might find a native function missing, or something that you would like to use that isn't implemented yet - at which point you either need to implement it yourself or open up an issue for someone to get to :)

I'll make a tracking issue for it - new GC work is fun! I'll do some research, I have on my back log to integrate Steel into Bevy or some other Rust game engine, would give me a reason to make some fun GCs

Thanks for the recommendation, with some brief poking around it does seem promising! It looks like the algorithm is this? https://github.com/fitzgen/bacon-rajan-cc

The link to the paper seems dead unfortunately from this blog post https://nim-lang.org/blog/2020/12/08/introducing-orc.html

I could see how it works as a drop in replacement for Rc

Yes, I don't have a link handy but I based it off the Phil Bagwell paper

Hopefully the linked README provides a general overview (I know I need to write some more documentation!), but Steel is an implementation of the scheme programming language (not entirely compliant yet, but aiming for R5RS and R7RS compliance). It can be used as a standalone language via the interpreter/repl (like Python or Racket), or it can be embedded inside applications, like Lua. There are hundreds (thousands, probably) of embeddable languages, each with their own flavor - see a list compiled here for example https://github.com/dbohdan/embedded-scripting-languages

Use cases are generally for either configuration, scripting, or plugins - so scripting in games, or adding extensions to your text editor without having to use FFI or RPC + serializing a bunch of data. The advantage it has over using dynamic libraries (in general) is it runs in the same process, and can access the internal data structures directly without a lot of ceremony involved. The downside is that it is typically not as fast as native code unless a JIT is involved.

Javascript is an example of an embedded scripting, where the browser is the host application.

At the moment I only have 1 SRFI package, and its just to check against compatibility :) - my plan is to wrap the SRFI packages with friendly names and just include the metadata in the package spec so someone searching for it can find it easily.

So here is the history:

1. Guy Steele (along with Gerald Sussman) created scheme, and Steel is close to Steele, just drop the e.

2. Steel is a scheme, and I observed that scheme names have a tendency to be named things crime related: Scheme, Racket (racketeering), Larceny, etc - Not a scientific analysis at all, but I found it funny at the time that Steel sounds like "steal".

3. You made the observation, Steel sounds like something that would be associated with Rust.

Beyond that, I just liked the name. No SEO involved, and arguably probably should have picked something more searchable, but I didn't start making it with the intention of there being a lot of users, it started as a project for school.

Immutable values are reference counted, so for most code, things will be dropped when they exit scope. For captured mutable values, there is a fairly mundane mark and sweep collector. It is possible to manually control the garbage collector, however I have not optimized it for that kind of workload. If you were embedding Steel in a game, I don't think it would be explicitly necessary to tune the GC as long as you aren't using a ton of mutation. If you were using a lot of mutation and still wanted a relatively performant GC collection at the end of every frame, then the underlying GC implementation would have to be changed or swapped to a different one (which is not impossible - I just only have one GC implemented)

To answer each of these:

1. I do support parameters now, syntax parameters not yet. I would like to! But Racket has a pretty hefty head start on me so it'll take some time.

2. Right now I have syntax-rules macros, I also have defmacro style macros that get used internally in the kernel during expansion, but haven't yet opened them up for user space yet. Syntax case will be coming soon hopefully.

3. The odds of me being able to come up with an implementation to match typed racket pound for pound is pretty low. I have toyed with using contracts as types (where possible), with medium/promising success in certain situations. I have a soft spot for racket and have been modeling behavior after it, however it will take time to be able to create a macro system powerful enough to match it. It wouldn't be impossible to create an alternative syntax to just lower to steel after type checking, but I haven't put time into that.

On the list type - the list in use currently is an unrolled linked list https://github.com/mattwparas/im-lists, which I've found to yield much better performance for iteration than the naive linked lists. When possible, the vm does some in place mutation on the lists as well when consing, which helps performance as well. I also can hot swap for a vlist, but at the moment have stuck with unrolled linked lists.

This is a surprise! Steel is my project, happy to answer any questions anyone might have