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infinitesoup

> A youtube copyright notice / copyright strike is not the same as a DMCA takedown.

Yes it is. YouTube doesn’t magically get to ignore the DMCA, so their process is built around that (along with layering Content ID on top to allow for a middle ground where videos can stay up but redirect some or all monetization to the copyright holder).

If you click through the link I posted above, you’ll get to this page which shows the complete process, including the counter-notification step: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/13823830 Do you have reason to believe 3blue1brown can’t file a counter-notification in this case?

YouTube’s “three strikes” policy is their implementation of the DMCA’s “repeat infringers” requirement:

> has adopted and reasonably implemented, and informs subscribers and account holders of the service provider's system or network of, a policy that provides for the *termination* in appropriate circumstances of subscribers and account holders of the service provider's system or network who are *repeat infringers*

https://www.aclu.org/documents/text-digital-millennium-copyr...

You’re conflating the two systems. YouTube does have the Content ID system, which does automatic detection and is mostly used to monetize (not take down) copyrighted content. But this case is a copyright strike, which means there was a DMCA takedown filed.

The differences between these two systems are explained here: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7002106

Sounds like he got a copyright strike, which means a DMCA takedown, not a Content ID claim.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7002106

> hold onto the revenue until the dispute is resolved

They do that: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7000961?hl=en

Re:My video with 47M views was stolen on YouTube [video] on Wednesday December 26, 2018 @11:02AM (#18762749)
There's a different option for if the video is public domain or otherwise not copyrightable to handle this case. I assume that that "lawyerly language" is to dissuade users from abusing the process and choosing an option when it's not really true.
Re:My video with 47M views was stolen on YouTube [video] on Tuesday December 25, 2018 @11:42PM (#18760573)
Looking at copyright claims I have on my channel (these are valid music claims, for what it's worth), I see a dispute option labeled "The video is my original content and I own all of the rights to it", which I think covers the case you're describing.
Re:My video with 47M views was stolen on YouTube [video] on Tuesday December 25, 2018 @08:29PM (#18759956)
Yes, sorry, you're right -- they do it to keep the safe harbor protection (which is the only sane option when running a video sharing website).
Re:My video with 47M views was stolen on YouTube [video] on Tuesday December 25, 2018 @05:53PM (#18759514)
But YouTube does accept DMCA claims, of course, as it's required by law. Their Content ID system provides an automated way to detect potential infringement by large copyright holders and redirect ad revenue to them, but if uploaders dispute the claim and appeal decision to uphold the claim, then the copyright holder is required to send a full DMCA claim to take down the video, and the uploader can respond with a counter notice to put the video back up. Of course, the copyright holder can choose to jump ahead to filing a DMCA notice at any point, bypassing some or all of the Content ID process. I'm guessing that most wouldn't do that, though, because the DMCA process is not automated, has strict timelines built in, and only allows for takedown (whereas Content ID allows for videos to stay up but make ad revenue for them). Without Content ID system, I'm guessing we'd be back in the days where the big copyright holders would just spam DMCA notices and end up with a lot more videos taken down.

(Disclaimer: I used to work in the media business so I'm familiar with the process).

I agree that their monetization policy is pretty vague; I wish it was clearer but they probably have to cover their bases.

As for "people that abuse moderation tools for hateful or trolling purposes": these people won't be given access to the tools. According to the site [0], you only get points and level up for actually flagging things correctly, and you get kicked out if you're abusing it. And the improved flagging tools are only available once you reach a higher level. So it would be pretty hard to abuse (especially since even after all that, there's oversight).

[0]: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7159025

There's a lot of misinformation going on in the Reddit thread. These "Heroes" get better tools for flagging videos faster (among other things), but it's still just flagging. Every flag still gets reviewed by a human at YouTube, according to their documentation:

> YouTube staff review flagged videos 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and videos that violate our Community Guidelines are removed from YouTube. Videos that may not be appropriate for all younger audiences are age-restricted.

> Flagged videos are not automatically taken down by the flagging system. If a video doesn't violate our guidelines, no amount of flagging will change that, and the video will stay on the site. [0]

And that documentation is still true for the Hero program:

> As always, the policy team at YouTube makes the final determination of whether content should be removed. [1]

[0]: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2802027

[1]: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2803402

Re:YouTube Community goes beyond video on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @11:03PM (#12493990)
I found an option to turn off notifications for those messages. If you open the notification settings for a channel that you're subscribed to, you can uncheck "Include community post notifications" and then stay subscribed to just get the video notifications.
Re:YouTube Community goes beyond video on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @10:51PM (#12493954)
> Censorship and demonetisation on YouTube seems to be happening to people fairly regularly, and without appeal, via poorly calibrated algorithms

Demonetization happens when a video doesn't meet their "advertiser-friendly" policy, but there is an appeal process where you can have a human look at it to determine if the original assessment was wrong [0]. Do you have data to support your claim that their algorithms are "poorly calibrated"?

Can you provide some examples of "censorship"? They do have policies that things like graphic content or spam is not permitted and will be removed from the site, but I think that's reasonable.

> It seems even the stars of the platform who often share managers and production companies with other stars have difficulty getting in touch with YouTube to resolve issues.

YouTube provides email support with a 1-business day response time to all creators [1], and the bigger channels get their own Partner Managers [2].

[0]: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7083671

[1]: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/3545535?hl=en

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/yt/creators/benefit-levels.html?noap...

After the uploader disputes an automated claim, the claimant can uphold it as you described, but the user then has the option to appeal that claim. The only way to settle that appeal is for the claimant to either drop the claim or at that point file a DMCA takedown. That's the process I was describing. YouTube has information on the process here: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797454?hl=en (look under "What happens after I appeal?")
Flagged videos aren't removed automatically; a human reviews them first. It would probably be better if it was more automated, because humans make mistakes and machines don't get tired after a long day of reviewing videos.

"YouTube staff review flagged videos 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and videos that violate our Community Guidelines are removed from YouTube.

...

Flagged videos are not automatically taken down by the flagging system. If a video doesn't violate our guidelines, no amount of flagging will change that, and the video will stay on the site."

Source: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2802027?hl=en

YouTube also allows users to sell or rent their videos directly through the website [0], so this doesn't seem very different to me.

[0]: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/3249127?hl=en

Well, the law does not allow YouTube to "punish" false DMCA takedowns, so in those cases there's not much they can do. It's up to the person who had their content taken down to file a lawsuit if they want the person filing the takedown notice to face punishment (which is one of the broken aspects of the DMCA law).

YouTube does punishes false claims through their Content ID system, though, as that's a system they control. From their website, "Content owners who repeatedly make erroneous claims can have their Content ID access disabled and their partnership with YouTube terminated."

I just looked on some of the claims I've gotten on my own videos, an one of the options for a dispute is "The video is my original content and I own all of the rights to it.", which I think sums up the problem you were facing.
That's not quite true. YouTube does have to follow the DMCA as required by law, and so they do so accordingly.

They also have a separate automated system ("Content ID"), which can automatically block videos or put ads on them and pay the content owner (the latter being a unique feature not possible with just the DMCA), and because it's controlled by YouTube and is more flexible than the law, it provides a generally better experience to the uploader compared to getting a DMCA takedown notice.

If an uploader gets a Content ID claim, then they can dispute it, and if the person making that claim is forced to file a regular DMCA takedown if they want the video to be taken down. Content ID is just the initial step in some cases, but at any point in the process, the DMCA takedown process can be invoked.

Re:Content ID and the Rise of the Machines on Saturday February 27, 2016 @10:29PM (#11189702)
> there is no attempt to curtail bad actors on that side of the table

Do you have evidence to back that up? According to YouTube's Help Center, they do revoke Content ID access from those who abuse the system[0].

[0]: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797370

Re:Content ID and the Rise of the Machines on Friday February 26, 2016 @09:22PM (#11185755)
> Content ID exists so YouTube can ease big partners.

It's probably more to ease their own burden. YouTube likely receives a huge number of takedown requests daily, but with Content ID a lot more can be automated. Also, without Content ID, there would probably be a lot more companies just doing poorly-scripted takedown requests, which would make the experience of everyone on YouTube a lot worse. See: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/02/absurd-automated-notic...

> I am not sure about the three strikes being a part of DMCA. Are you sure?

The DMCA includes a clause about the termination of "repeat infringers"; I assume that YouTube's strike system is their easy-to-understand-and-apply way of addressing that. From the DMCA:

"The limitations on liability established by this section shall apply to a service provider only if the service provider has adopted and reasonably implemented, and informs subscribers and account holders of the service provider’s system or network of, a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate circumstances of subscribers and account holders of the service provider’s system or network who are repeat infringers"

(source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512)

As for your last point, that does sound broken. Perhaps the content owner of the song you used decided that they didn't want people using it on YouTube after all?

Re:Content ID and the Rise of the Machines on Friday February 26, 2016 @08:01PM (#11185515)
Or, from another perspective, Content ID is one of the best things about YouTube. Rather than all videos with copyrighted content being taken down, many get to stay up and viewable, and the owner of the content is happy because they can still get paid.

The "three strikes" system isn't Content ID, that's the DMCA process, which are the laws that YouTube has operate within. One of the great things that about Content ID is that it provides a better appeals system than the DMCA provides, so that things can be fixed before the DMCA process kicks in and the video is taken down.

Re:Content ID and the Rise of the Machines on Friday February 26, 2016 @07:45PM (#11185457)
How do you determine which video is the "original" version? That is, how do you tell which uploader owns the content? There isn't really a way to know until the content owner makes a compliant (anyone can file a DMCA takedown, not just big media companies).
That's not correct.

Content ID is an automated takedown, but if you dispute a content ID claim, then the content owner has to respond with a DMCA takedown request if they want to continue the process.

All other takedowns (including that web form) are DMCA takedowns.

Can you clarify what you mean by "short circuiting"?
> I think we need to be angry at YouTube too. YouTube makes it exceptionally easy to file takedowns, no proof of validity required.

You should be angry at how copyright law works in the U.S., not at the fact that YouTube has to follow it. The way that DMCA works is that when YouTube receives a takedown request, they have to honor it and take down the video as long as the request has all of the required information. Appeals take 10 days, which is also spelled out in the DMCA laws. If they don't follow the the laws, they could lose the safe harbor also provided by DMCA. There's a flowchart here of what the whole process looks like: http://readwrite.com/2012/02/23/how_dmca_takedown_notices_wo...

It's a web form probably to make things easier on their end; they probably get hundreds of thousands [0] of these requests every day, and I can't even imagine trying to process that amount through letter mail or faxes.

And while the web form may look simple, it's still a legal process. You need to sign into your account to use it, and they suggest that they punish people who are abusing the process: "Do not make false claims. Misuse of this process may result in the suspension of your account or other legal consequences." [1]

> YouTube is not an open, or fair platform like it used to strive to be. It is now very much a revenue stream where creators (who bring traffic to the site) are often disregarded and/or considered disposable.

I don't think there's any evidence to back that claim.

[0]: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121211/16152021352/dmca-...

[1]: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2807622?hl=en

It's unfortunate for Streamus, but expected and reasonable in my opinion (especially since the developer knew he was breaking the ToS from the beginning).

YouTube presumably has negotiated contracts with the content owners which allow them to stream audiovisual content under a certain set of constraints. Many content owners distribute their content in other ways (e.g., selling music on the iTunes store), so they allow their content for "free" on YouTube only because they know that the audio component will be accompanied by a video of their choice and they will be supported by ads. These content owners wouldn't want YouTube to be used just like an ordinary music streaming service without being compensated properly. In order to hold up their end of the deal, YouTube has to enforce their terms of service, otherwise they risk losing the contracts that they have already negotiated.

If Streamus wanted to keep doing things like they were before these changes, then they would have to go and negotiate contracts with the content owners, just like YouTube had to do. Streamus has to abide by the ToS (which is in turn the terms of the negotiated contracts) if they expect to use the YouTube API.

There is a list of songs that content ID knows about here: https://www.youtube.com/audiolibrary/ad_supported_music

It also looks like they are planning on releasing some tools to better track how people listen to different artists and songs on YouTube: http://www.billboard.com/articles/events/festivals/6509178/y...

> Also please make content id available to all rights holders.

Unfortunately, I don't think that that is feasible for them. Everyone is a potential rights holder, and granting everyone access to that would likely lead to widespread abuse. Individuals would often claim that they own content that they do not (in order to take down or monetize videos). Even with the limited set of groups that can use Content ID, there is still invalid usage - I remember a few years ago seeing a public domain video taken down because a news company had played the public domain video during its broadcast and then had later claimed that it owned that content. Imagine if everyone had the ability to claim that they owned everything and tried to takedown or monetize a lot of things that they don't own.

Instead, I think it's probably better that they limit Content ID to a set of groups that they trust, where they can actually deal with any abuse on a smaller scale.

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