fiffled

> Reading the "leaked report", the only evidence are screenshots of photocopies of ... what literally just seems to be a textbook explaining the supposed condition she has. Not regarding her specifically. Literally just a textbook description of the condition.

How can it be a photocopy of a textbook if it mentions the boxer by name?

Translated into English, the second screenshot includes the phrase: "This is the case of Imane who fully identifies as a woman."

It continues with: "On the therapeutic level, surgical correction and hormonal therapy will be indicated for her as well as sustained psychological support because a very significant neuropsychiatric impact has been observed in her. The patient will be followed regularly in consultation."

This screenshot also notes a "functional enzyme deficiency" which is consistent with this quote from the first screenshot: "The paraclinical biological, radiological and genetic exploration shows that there is a congenital genetic deficiency in 5-alpha reductase type 2, an anomaly of sexual development which leads to a defect in the metabolism of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone."

This is a developmental condition that only affects male sexual development.

Aside from this, there is other evidence for Khelif being male.

Firstly, karotype testing from two independent labs, both of which revealed XY chromosomes. This was reported by sports journalist Alan Abrahamson, who has viewed the lab reports and covering letter that was received by the IOC from the IBA. He quotes from them in this article: https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/5/fa9lt6ypbwx5su...

Secondly, Georges Cazorla, who was part of Khelif's training team, revealed in an interview with French magazine Le Point that Khelif has a problem with both chromosomes and hormones, and has been under medication to bring testosterone levels into the female range. This matches up with the medical report quoted above. Interview is here: https://www.lepoint.fr/monde/2024-olympics-imane-khelif-was-...

There are other unusual aspects of this case as well, which are inconsistent with a female athlete being wrongly accused of being male. One is that Khelif chose to abandon a case at the Court of Arbitration for Sport after being deemed ineligible to compete in women's boxing events hosted by the IBA. If Khelif was actually female, this would be an easy win. But perhaps more likely, the decision was made to drop the case because rulings are made public, and this would reveal that Khelif is male. (Which is how we know that Caster Semenya, another male athlete who competed in the female category, has a specific disorder of sex development that only affects males - in fact, the same condition as quoted in the leaked medical report of Khelif.)

Another is that Rafael Lozano, the head of the Spanish national team, recounted that when the Algerians visited to train, Khelif ended up being matched with a male boxer to spar, due to upper body strength and punching power being too much to handle for the female boxers. This is highly unusual and again is not consistent with the claim that Khelif is female.

When you look at all the evidence in aggregate, it becomes very clear that Khelif is male.

My other comment details the evidence: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42664346

There are several lines of evidence which point towards Khelif being male:

- Karotype testing from two independent labs showing XY chromosomes, as reported by sports journalist Alan Abrahamson, who has seen the lab reports and covering letter that was received by the IOC from the IBA - he quotes from them in this article: https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/5/fa9lt6ypbwx5su...

- Georges Cazorla, who was in Khelif's training team, revealing in interview that Khelif has a problem with chromosomes and hormones, and has been under testosterone suppression to bring levels into the female range: https://www.lepoint.fr/monde/2024-olympics-imane-khelif-was-...

- Extracts from a medical report leaked to French journalist Djaffer Ait Aoudia, which reveal that Khelif has the DSD 5-alpha reductase deficiency (5-ARD, same as Caster Semenya) which exists only in males: https://lecorrespondant.net/imane-khelif-ni-ovaires-ni-uteru...

There are other oddities too, like Khelif choosing to abandon a case at the Court of Arbitration for Sport after being deemed ineligible to compete in women's boxing events hosted by the IBA. Also, Rafael Lozano, the head of the Spanish national team, recalled that when the Algerians visited to train, Khelif was matched with a male boxer to spar, as the upper body strength and punching power was far too much for the female boxers.

All of this is consistent with Khelif competing at the Olympics in women's boxing, as they only asked for identity documentation and did not verify sex - unlike weight classes which were strictly controlled by weigh-ins.

Imane Khelif is almost certainly male, but not trans. The evidence strongly suggests a disorder of sex development (DSD) that would have led to Khelif being assumed female at birth.

This is a Caster Semenya type situation, not a Lia Thomas one.

(Caster Semenya being a male athlete with the DSD 5-alpha reductase deficiency, a genetic condition that presents from embryonic development onwards. Lia Thomas being a male athlete who adopted a transgender identity in adulthood.)

> How about your trans people beating up women in boxing

You mean Imane Khelif? If so, you've been misinformed.

Khelif does not identify as trans, and described such accusations as "a big shame for my family, for the honor of my family, for the honor of Algeria, for the women of Algeria and especially the Arab world."

The evidence indicates that Khelif is a male with a disorder of sex development - not a male with a transgender identity.

Still a male pummelling female competitors though. Who is being excused in this through the spread of a considerable amount of misinformation, your earlier comment being an example of such.

No, just erroneously assumed to be female and issued with identity documents stating this.

Same as has happened previously with other male athletes in women's sports, such as Caster Semenya who also has 5-ARD and also competed in the Olympics, back in 2016 in the women's 800m track event, winning gold. The silver and bronze medals were taken by males too.

Khelif does not identify as trans, and described such accusations as "a big shame for my family, for the honor of my family, for the honor of Algeria, for the women of Algeria and especially the Arab world."

How do you mean? An underdeveloped penis is not a female characteristic, nor is the presence of internal testes. Going through male puberty isn't a characteristic of the female body either.

The available evidence indicates that Khelif is actually male: two blood tests from two independent labs revealing an XY karyotype, a member of Khelif's training team describing problems with hormones and chromosomes and that Khelif has been on medication to adjust testosterone to within the female range, and a leaked medical report which describes Khelif as having the male-specific disorder of sexual development 5-alpha reductase deficiency (5-ARD).

This implies that Khelif is not female but is male, and went through male puberty, therefore having the male physical advantage in sport caused by male sexual development.

Every piece of evidence revealed so far points towards Imane Khelif being male. Two blood tests from independent labs showing an XY karyotype, a member of Khelif's coaching team describing problems with chromosomes and hormones while also mentioning that Khelif has been on medication to adjust testosterone levels to bring this closer to the female range, and most recently, a leaked medical report showing that Khelif has a male-specific disorder of sexual development: 5-alpha reductase deficiency (5-ARD).

We can ascertain from all this that Khelif went through male puberty and has the male physical advantage in sport that is caused by male sexual development.

Interestingly this is the same DSD that Caster Semenya has. Semenya is another male athlete who competed in a women's category at the Olympics, for the 800 metres track event, and who also won gold.

Individuals with this condition are sometimes mistaken for female at birth due to internal testes and an underdeveloped penis. And are then issued identity documents erroneously stating that they are female. This is what happened with Semenya and almost certainly is the case with Khelif too.

Some underinformed people weren't cognisant of the exact details, and assumed because Khelif is a male competing in the women's division, that this implies Khelif has a transgender identity. When in fact, Khelif described accusations of this as "a big shame for my family, for the honor of my family, for the honor of Algeria, for the women of Algeria and especially the Arab world."

Nonetheless, the main reason that people opposed Khelif competing in women's sports is the same reason they oppose transwomen competing in women's sports: because they are male.

So while the exact details may have been wrong, for some people, the underlying principle was the same.

All the evidence revealed so far indicates that Khelif is male. Regardless of the IBA's other issues, there are two blood tests from independent labs showing XY karyotype, and a member of Khelif's coaching team described problems with chromosomes and hormones such that Khelif has been on medication to adjust testosterone levels to bring this closer to the female range.

This implies that Khelif went through male puberty and has the male physical advantage in sport that is caused by male sexual development. Most likely, Khelif was assigned female at birth due to having a difference of sex development (DSD) conferring an external genital appearance that at first glance may seem female.

I don't know where this oft-repeated idea that Khelif has Swyer syndrome came from, but it's nonsensical. Swyer comes with bone defects due to hormone deficiency, and suffering from osteopenia and osteoporesis is not compatible with an elite athletic career, particularly not boxing. Anyone with Swyer would be getting fractures from all the punching and being punched. Nothing about Khelif's situation aligns with this.

However, there was previously in the Olympics a very similar situation with Caster Semenya, a male runner whose penis didn't develop properly due to having the DSD 5-ARD, and was therefore erroneously assumed to be female, and given identity documents to match. Semenya was eventually disqualified from track events due to having internal testes that produce male levels of testosterone and have done since puberty. Probably Khelif has the same or similar condition.

The actual issue was that this athlete, Imane Khelif, is male. And was competing in a women's boxing match, despite having previously been deemed ineligible by the International Boxing Association for this reason, after a karyotype test revealed XY chromosomes.

The problem is that Olympic women's boxing doesn't verify sex other than via identity documents. Even though the other categorical attribute - weight - is strictly verified during competition.

Obviously, many people are against this, for the same reason as why mixed-sex boxing tournaments aren't considered acceptable.