AnAmericanPOV64

>This isn't the topic of discussion of this thread.

This is true, my intention isn't to derail the topic of the thread. Just pointing out that "whataboutism" is often just a defense for "stop pointing out my hypocrisy".

>Most nations of the EU (all?) have quit invading other sovereign nations to solve their disputes, especially overt landgrabs.

Unless its in Palestine or Western Sahara?

>Do you have a solution to propose?

Yes, perhaps if the West wasn't so hypocritical on ignoring its own numerous war crimes, then countries like China/India and entire regions like South America/Middle East would be more willing to support the West in conflicts like Ukraine. Its obviously too late for that now, but something to keep in mind for the future.

Its a tangential point, but you can't expect people to help you or care when you refuse to show them the same sympathy.

Most people in the West, including myself, knew nothing about Bandera until perhaps a month or so ago, so I'm not sure what you mean by "he's more favored in the West" unless you meant Western Ukraine. He has tons of monuments and streets named after him throughout Ukraine (someone in this thread pointed out the exact number), so I'm not sure how you could claim he is "not on a pedastal".

Funny how you leave out the crimes committed by the U.S. and its allies in the Middle East, how are chemical weapons in Syria and ISIS relevant to my point? Why didn't you mention the mass killings of civilians carried out by the U.S. in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan which the U.S. never accounts for (and when it does it basically says "oops, it was an accident, but not our fault". The mass sale of weapons by the U.S./UK to Saudi Arabia in atrocities in Yemen? Bringing back slave markets to Libya? Mass starvation of Afghanistan by witholding money which belongs to them by the U.S.? Mass murder of Iranians via sanctions by the U.S. for ripping up its own deal? I haven't even mentioned the horrendous amount of hypocrisy on the Israel/Palestine issue.

With respect to South America, perhaps those crimes are older, but they are still within memory. Support for Pinochet and the UK refusing to prosecute him for his crimes (of course, with the explicit support of the U.S.)? The countless interventions by the U.S. in South America over the last 50 years (funny how no one said anything about the U.S. not being allowed to have a sphere of influence back then)? Ongoing right now...mass murder via sanctions on Venezuela and Cuba for daring to exercise their own sovereignty?

The West is so hypocritical that the rest of the world (unfortunately) does not care about Ukraine. It is not the Ukrainians' fault, but frankly countries like China and India are not going to commit economic suicide by refusing to purchase Russian oil/gas, when they know the U.S. and its client states commit war crimes all over the world that are just as bad as what is going on in Ukraine and turn a blind eye to their own crimes.

The "whataboutism" defense has basically become codeword for "how dare you point out our hypocrisy!" Especially for people in South America or the Middle East, why should they care about war crimes in Europe when Europeans/Americans have been committing war crimes or supporting people who do in their regions?

Stepan Bandera, who is highly respected in Ukraine, had a reputation during WW2 of mass murdering Ukrainians who were "insufficiently Ukrainian". Its not unreasonable to ask for an independent investigation by the UN/ICC before assigning blame.

Also, on your first point, considering that many atrocities in the Middle East are ongoing, it is highly relevant. When the West has shown that it doesn't give a crap about war crimes in the Middle East/South America which it is complicit in, then why should they give a crap about war crimes in Europe?

This should be investigated by the ICC...along with all of the war crimes the U.S. got away with in Iraq and Afghanistan.

By whataboutism, do you mean pointing out the West's hypocrisy? Why don't you just answer his question?

Personally, I support the banning of Russian, Saudi, and Israeli accounts. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I think this is a good way to bring attention to this cause, however, I can't help but point out the notable hypocrisies that this crisis has revealed:

-Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) are legitimate ways to oppose an occupying power? Oh that's quite interesting, I thought that those were considered racist/anti-semitic for the past decade, what happened?

-Sovereignty matters? Interesting, apparently it doesn't matter in the case of U.S. troops occupying the northeast corner of Syria or in the case of the Syrian Golan Heights.

-Refugees are welcome (Hungary/Poland), interesting...I thought that these nations couldn't take on war refugees. Could it have something to do with the skin color of today's refugees versus those from a few years ago?

-In Germany's case, they claimed that they shouldn't pass full SWIFT sanctions because it might hurt Russian civil society. Interesting...they didn't have the same worry when it came to the Iranians for a much smaller offense as invading a neighbor.

Just some uncomfortable food for thought. You may now downvote for pointing out the West's hypocrisy. This obviously does not absolve what Russia has done (stupid I have to even say this, but given today's atmosphere...), but I thought I would point out an aspect of hypocrisy this crisis has brought around.