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Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by JoshTriplett on Friday October 11, 2024 @05:08PM (#41813763)
> That is just not the reality though. You make a choice.

Brains are fascinating. There is a choice being made every time someone with gambling addiction goes to gamble or someone with a smoking addiction goes to smoke, but that doesn't mean they're not experiencing addiction/withdrawal distorting the ability to make that choice in a healthy fashion. Some people do manage to quit smoking by just making a decision one day to stop and sticking with it, with no assistance whatsoever; that doesn't mean they weren't experiencing addiction/withdrawal. There are, in fact, mechanisms that encourage addictive behavior, ranging from social media use to alcohol to food to MMORPGs. Not everyone who uses those things, even to excess, has an addiction. But some do. And breaking that addiction is laudable, whether with or without assistance.

Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by rixed on Friday October 11, 2024 @05:46PM (#41814104)
This is not about that. This is about why you consider some bad habits are addictions and some others are not. I don't know, maybe you are right, but you haven't provided any beginning of an answer yet.

Rather, you sound like you would be saying that "quitting alcohol is merely a question of personal choice" if you had struggled with alcohol rather than weight.

Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by Someone1234 on Friday October 11, 2024 @05:04PM (#41813723)
I'm going to change one word of what you posted:

> I realize people are trying to make over opiod abuse into some sort of addiction. It makes it easier to not blame the person and absolves them of all personal responsibility for their condition - they just can't help themselves, don't ya know!

I change one addiction to another addiction. If people find the above distasteful, I agree, but my question is why do you believe one thing for food addiction and another thing for other addictions?

Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by Alupis on Friday October 11, 2024 @05:32PM (#41813962)
Let me ask you, does one become addicted to opioids by accident? Or did they make a choice to start using opioids?

So their addiction was a choice - and now they have developed a chemical dependency which is no longer a choice.

There is no such chemical dependency from eating two cheeseburgers for dinner instead of one.

Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by cthalupa on Friday October 11, 2024 @07:58PM (#41815122)
It's well established science that chemical reactions, hormones, etc. in the body 100% influence your hunger and cravings.

That doesn't mean that it's not within the means of human willpower to overcome it - everyone has the power to not be obese. But that doesn't mean that it isn't significantly harder for some people based on their genetics, biochemistry, the feedback loop of being obese, etc.

Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by Wytwwww on Friday October 11, 2024 @07:13PM (#41814837)
> chemical dependency from eating two cheeseburgers for dinner

Wouldn't the initial dependency be almost purely psychological for opioids as well? Most people certainly wouldn't develop a chemical dependency after just two doses as well.

> developed a chemical dependency which is no longer a choice.

Why? They still have a choice. Of course it might be much harder for them to stick with that choice than for someone suffering from a mainly psychological addiction.

Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by ben_w on Friday October 11, 2024 @06:14PM (#41814367)
If they started using them without informed consent, was it a choice?

And even then, you do have a chemical dependancy on enough calories, that dependency led to an evolved response mechanism, that mechanism is exploited by junk food manufacturers. That the substances your body and brain produce in response to food stimuli are endogenous (made in your own body) rather than exogenous (made outside) doesn't make them magically less potent — some of us can get past this with our willpower*, but observationally it's obvious that most of us can't.

* I seem to have a lot of willpower, but I suspect that's mainly that my conscious self is fairly oblivious to my body's needs, as my willpower also leads to me pushing myself too hard in various different ways.

Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by beeboobaa3 on Friday October 11, 2024 @05:46PM (#41814111)
> There is no such chemical dependency from eating two cheeseburgers for dinner instead of one.

Apparently not in your body, no. Or maybe you just failed to recognize what addiction is, and managed to overcome it. Good job!

Now stop trying to pretend that your lived experience equals everyone else's because it clearly doesn't.

Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by tsimionescu on Saturday October 12, 2024 @02:17AM (#41816880)
Some people get out of opioid addictions cold turkey, by just not consuming more opioids, enduring the withdrawal symptoms, and then getting rid of the chemical dependency.

Since we know this phenomenon is real, this means that, even with a chemical dependency, people choose whether to take the drug or not. So, by your logic, they are not really addicted, they can just choose to stop at any time, they're just silly and weak people, right?

Of course this is reductive and simplistic. Ultimately your choices are a computation that your entire nervous system makes, and urges and cravings are a component of that, just like rational processes are. Different people's nervous systems weigh these factors differently, and have more or less powerful cravings and urges to begin with. It's absurd to think that your rational thinking can overwrite anything in any condition, and it's absurd to think that all people experience these thinks to the same extent.

Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by tmpz22 on Friday October 11, 2024 @05:07PM (#41813757)
Can you acknowledge your own bias in condemning people who don't achieve the same thing you have achieved? Can you acknowledge any advantages you may have had that made it easier for you to succeed in this particular endeavor?
Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by datavirtue on Friday October 11, 2024 @06:10PM (#41814341)
Right, or you can just own up to the fact that you do not have discipline and are indeed making detrimental choices for yourself. That alone is transformative, accepting responsibility.
Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by thierrydamiba on Friday October 11, 2024 @04:52PM (#41813615)
I think the best example here is compare the crimes people commit to get burgers and the crimes they commit to get fent.
Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by ben_w on Friday October 11, 2024 @05:59PM (#41814239)
That would only work if you could get fentanyl for a few dollars at every fast food joint.

Or if burgers were a thing you had to go to an illegal dealer for.

Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by Alupis on Friday October 11, 2024 @06:58PM (#41814709)
How about people just try not up-sizing their drink and fries? Or order one burger instead of two or three?

These are all choices.

Re:How long til we're all on Ozempic? by ben_w on Sunday October 13, 2024 @03:21PM (#41830750)
Why do you think people persistently, for years, keep choosing something that harmed their bodies?

Just because you can do something, doesn't make it a "just" for everyone:

• Without any training, one day I decided to put one foot in front of the other and keep going, and managed 42 km, a literal marathon in distance — but it's obvious that, even though I was walking, most people can't do that.

• When I was at university, I gamified my diet to be the lowest cost without feeling hungry, and in retrospect that was probably 1100 kcal/day and only even safe because it was limited to term time, and it's really obvious that most people can't do that.

• Concersely, when I was on antidepressants and did graze myself into obesity, there simply wasn't a part of my mind aware of what I was doing to myself. I've lost that weight, but the strech marks are still there a decade later.