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Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by alasdair_ on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @08:08AM (#31490958)
How, exactly?

I know it seems simple to short Tether, but in practice there doesn't seem to be a safe way to do it such that if the value plummets to almost zero (and takes much of the crypto ecosystem with it, including some exchanges) you could actually guarantee you'd get paid in US dollars at the end of it all without a long lockup period.

You could do something like buy Coinbase puts or something, but there is so much volatility baked in already, and there is no guarantee that (say) Coinbase actually falls if Tether does.

If you can think of a pure Tether short that still will work if trading is halted and exchanges fail, I'd love to hear about it.

Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by xwolfi on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @02:22PM (#31495718)
In a short play you're paid immediately in USD. You sold the minute you acquired tether and now all you have is a Tether-denominated liability to pay back, which you assume will cost you 0 since you ll be able to get all those tether back at much less than you sold the initial loan.

Ofc, for servicing this liability in tether, you have to pay interests in USD, as long as the market stays irrational.

You need to find a large sleepy holder of Tether, fully bullish, who wants to make some easy premium money on your back while you make riskier short term downward bets on their back. A lawyer, a contract, a repayment schedule and hop, the matter is settled. We do that everyday in my investment bank in Hong Kong, with pension fund partners holding large inventories of stocks for their own clients and who dont know what to do with all that sleeping inventory.

You can contact us or our competitors if you have above 200k in cash to invest in the short and we'll find you counterparties for a fee. If you plan to short regularly a few millions a day, DM me.

Ofc, we d never touch a Tether short, we re not as insane as the crypto market. I d advise you to only short on short term bets, with full transparency with your counterparty so you avoid any sort of surprise. You should also pay a bit to hedge a catastrophic reversal, we have entire desks of people for that, so you can pay a bank for that service.

Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by hiq on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @05:56PM (#31497958)
So from the large Tether holder's perspective, it's like a big deposit with USD interests and a very long time horizon, with the caveat that they'll get their principal back in USDT (with a rate 1:1) (eventually) instead of USD. And you do that through some legal contract, right?
Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by Ekaros on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @04:03AM (#31489275)
Because there is no safe platform to short it... Also what is the premium on such action? Probably should be extremely cheap as it is unlikely to go much over 1$...
Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by parkingrift on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @08:50AM (#31491327)
There is no way to short Tether from outside the crypto ecosystem. Shorting Tether with another stable coin is a fools errand.
Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by everfree on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @01:52PM (#31495296)
> Shorting Tether with another stable coin is a fools errand.

Why? There are plenty of US-based, regulated and audited stablecoins out there. You could use them as collateral to short Tether.

Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by parkingrift on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @04:57PM (#31497471)
Ha. This would be the equivalent of betting against the US dollar by buying treasury bonds. I doubt the solvency of any single exchange or crypto institution if there is a true run on Tether. No one who believes that Tether is a scam would risk making that bit by leveraging another loosely regulated stable coin.
Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by everfree on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @05:29PM (#31497740)
Many other popular asset-backed stables aren't loosely regulated like Tether. They are often regulated by NYSDFS.
Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by dudus on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @01:19PM (#31494906)
If you are so sure about Tether why not fulfill the other end of the bargain?

I will borrow your Tether for a 20% premium for 3 years. Are you in?

Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by User23 on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @03:56AM (#31489237)
How do you structure that trade such that it pays out when tether collapses?
Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by sickmate on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @05:09AM (#31489714)
I've never shorted or taken out crypto loans, but you could theoretically:

- Take out a loan of USDT, using a stablecoin you trust as collateral

- Immediately trade all USDT into your stablecoin

- If the USDT price crashes, buy it up to repay the loan.

e.g. Binance lets you borrow 800k USDT with 1.23m collateral. Over 180 days, interest paid would be 36k.

Say USDT crashes and you repay your loan at 10c/USDT - you would pay at most 84k to settle the loan. You then end up with 1.94m, a 58% return on investment.

It's probably not that simple however.

Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by alasdair_ on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @08:10AM (#31490973)
>- If the USDT price crashes, buy it up to repay the loan.

What happens if trading is effectively halted, so it's simply no possible to buy the USDT back later?

Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by SilasX on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @02:07PM (#31495496)
You can do it on a decentralized finance app like compound: deposit a stablecoin you trust (which could be USDC) and borrow Tether, then immediately sell it and put it into something else that earns interest, incl outside crypto. You continue to earn interest on the deposited USDC (currently .86%, Tether borrowing cost is 3.62%, all ignoring Compound rewards). You can borrow against 82% of the deposited USDC, but 70% would be better to cover the interest accumulating and possible temporary spikes in Tether value.

https://compound.finance/markets

Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by alisiddiq on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @05:45AM (#31489956)
What happens if Binance goes under because of this tether crash?
Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by tomthe on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @04:03AM (#31489273)
Is there an easy way to do this? Are you telling me that I could have shorted UST?
Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by haasted on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @04:34AM (#31489503)
Anchor protocol[0], which was most likely a large contributor to the collapse, was a lending application. Would have been easy to get a large chunk of UST from that. Not sure how your collateral would fare in the current situation, though.

[0] https://www.anchorprotocol.com/

Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by divs1210 on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @05:32AM (#31489853)
Yes, many people made money shorting LUNA and UST.
Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by E2EEd on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @04:02AM (#31489270)
Issuers of tether that is unbacked are defacto short. They thus embody your theory by design.

Is there any derivatives market in tether to allow an outsider to open/create a futures contract as a seller (thus, short) that gives them the obligation to deliver tether upon expiry?

I suspect that such matters don't work as you believe they do.

Shorting generally is done by professionals in regulated assets. Tether doesn't seem to meet that requirement. No professional will want to take on short risk in any size in an unregulated asset. Shorting, in theory, has unlimited downside risk (to negative infinity). This would actually be a factor in an unregulated market controlled by scammers, depending (in large part) on the net positions of underlying and derivatives by opposing parties.

Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by xwolfi on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @02:20PM (#31495674)
Because shorting cost as much money as the duration for which the market stays irrational.

I think Tether will collapse, I m not gonna pay you a premium for 5 years barely sleeping before finally the entire crypto space become insolvent. I d rather just tell you to help me convince our representatives to regulate.

Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by divs1210 on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @05:31AM (#31489849)
Agreed!
Re:Tether Withdrawals Top $10B by danaris on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @08:43AM (#31491237)
Is a financial market the only place you can imagine someone expressing themselves "sincerely"?

Can you not imagine that someone could feel that Tether is likely to fall to zero, and, oh, say, not want to legitimize the cryptocurrency ecosystem by putting any money into it?

Or even (gasp) not have thousands or tens of thousands of dollars to throw around on legalized gambling?