Why is bhouston's post being downvoted? People don't believe NYT? Or it's too political to mention this?

I suppose it’s being downvoted because it looks like diversion tactics to draw attention away from what’s actually being discussed, especially considering their other comment making a false assessment of the linked article, as pointed out by throwaway24006.

Disclosure: not related to that other throwaway account in any way. Using a throwaway because I don’t want to drag my main account into ugly topics like this.

The downvoting happened before someone pointed out the concern with that comment. So that probably isn't the cause.

That said, I have amended the specific comment that was wrong to correct it.

I've never seen so many throwaways appear out of nowhere before.

> So that probably isn't the cause.

It looks like diversion, at least to me, whether pointed out or not.

> I've never seen so many throwaways appear out of nowhere before.

I have seen it many times on radioactive topics. Some people don’t like to discuss under their extremely traceable accounts, especially if they’re close to the subject in question (resides in the country, works at the company, etc.), where it may lead to undesirable consequences.

Anyway, a mod should be able to connect the throwaway to my main identity easily.

I thought you had to have a minimum amount of karma before you can downvote, which would preclude throwaway accounts?

NYT also use Adrian Zenz' report and have a long history of lying to benefit US foreign interests.

Except there is no reliable proof of the latter.

Projection by the US, Canada and Australia does not constitute proof.

[edit] Adrian Zenz does not constitute a reliable source. Not only has his work been shoddy, he is a far-right christian sworn to destroy China. He doesn't even speak Mandarin. Of course the US, Britain, Australia, etc. would amplify his work, since it matches their material interests.

Here's a thorough piece on the topic https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang

This type of suppression of "the other" is incredibly common around the world but it usually, but not always, stops in the current era once it is brought to everyone's attention.

The point isn't to condemn the countries involved (e.g. country A is bad and always will be), but to get the suppression of the minority by the majority to stop by having others around the world speak up for the minority (e.g. country A should stop doing action B because it is wrong.)

This is actually the fundamental principle of human rights groups - speak up for those oppressed when they can not effectively help themselves.

It only appears to be an unchangeable condemnation if there is no chance that the oppression stops. In this case, like in many modern hard cases, there is a lot of denial doing on, both because some want the oppression to continue, and others because they identify with the country involved and believe that all those raising human rights issues are suspect.

Sure.

But at the same time, false claims of human rights abuses are used all the time to attack official US enemies. Remember the Nayirah testimony? It's merely one of the most visible examples.

The world isn't flat with equal power wielded by all countries. Some are exploited and others are exploiters, at gunpoint. We must be precise about claims made, lest we help the exploiter.

Countries denying their own human rights abuses is par for the course. Blaming anyone who brings up those human rights abuse as being an agent (witting or unwitting) of a geopolitical rival is also par for the course.

The US itself has a lot of its own problems with systematic racism as well.

But if I criticize the US on this front, should I expect a commenter to appear (like yourself) to tell me that this isn't actually an issue -- it is just being pushed by Russia agents who are only doing so because there is a geopolitics rivalry between US and Russia?

> But if I criticize the US on this front, should I expect a commenter to appear (like yourself) to tell me that this isn't actually an issue -- it is just being pushed by Russia agents who are only doing so because there is a geopolitics rivalry between US and Russia?

You seem to be arguing from a position that nothing ever actually ever happens, although everything is happening, and there are no such things as truth or falsehoods, everything is both a position being taken by someone to advance their own interests and an honest and heartfelt concern. I wish you would lower yourself to talk specifically and materially about the claims that you're supporting rather than floating in abstractions.

> I wish you would lower yourself to talk specifically and materially about the claims that you're supporting

You mean the links I put in the original comment? They are here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27324119

Russia and China aren't comparable to the US (and allies) in terms of military power, economic coercion or control over propaganda. This false equivalence is manufactured by US and allied media to protect their interests.

It's also worth looking at the actual sources. Try to find something claiming genocide in Xinjiang that doesn't end up using Adrian Zenz or a NED-funded think tank as a source.

On the other hand, for the US's atrocities we have plentiful and varied sources. Some of us have even felt the exploitation and destruction directly or through our families.

China does have a lot of influence as well, it is important not to discount it. It will continue to get stronger as well as it becomes an increasingly important market for goods and services.

For example, this apology by actor John Cena this week because he appeared to contravened the official Chinese line that Taiwan is part of China:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/27/john-cenas-apology-after-tai...

Or maybe John Cena cares about upsetting a large part of his audience, he apologised in decent Mandarin after all. It's unsurprising that imperialist media would twist a perfectly normal apology video into something sinister.

If you talk to people both on the mainland and in Taiwan, you'll find the vast majority consider Taiwan to be a part of China. Many have family on the other side of the Taiwan strait, after all.

Taiwan's local government still officially claims all of China as its territory. This is unsurprising since it's a direct descendant of the KMT, who retreated to Taiwan after losing the civil war to the PRC on the mainland. Only more recently a minority are starting to move towards the idea of Taiwan as an independent country; this minority is overrepresented in Western media.

I agree that John Cena wants to appeal to his fan base in China precisely because China is a growing market for goods and services -- as I said earlier.

I didn't mean to link to that more critical article, I just picked the first one that showed up in Google search for John Cena apology.

The very fact that the first thing you found paints Cena’s action as sinister confirms my point that the mainstream is very eager to spin any challenge to US hegemony as evil. Should that not make one question the narrative being pushed?

At least go read their stated sources, like Zenz’ report. It’s full of unsupported facts and egregious (and convenient) translation mistakes. Then read up on the man himself and his motivations.

I don't know what you mean. If china is doing it ( no reliable source but ... china bad west good) everybody should do it ?

clearly that not what they said.