If you’re referring to her spat on Twitter with Yann LeCun, I am aware of it although not particularly well versed in its details. Certainly not well enough that I could claim it was “toxic”, although maybe that would be an accurate classification of her behavior. Regardless, her toxic behavior elsewhere is not an excuse for toxic behavior here.

If her behavior is "toxic", who has it harmed?

Have you read her exchange with Lecun and the impact it had? Edit - Also, if her behavior online is like that, imagine what its like inside Google? Have you thought about that? Clearly her email to the brain group was an issue here, i wonder how it compared to her exchange with lecun?

One final edit, even her co-authors were not ready for publishing the paper (per article), so why is the reason of censorship, supression etc even being discussed. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion and Google likely did the right thing, purely based on her behavior

You mean when Lecun left Twitter explicitly saying people should stop critiquing Gebru?

https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1277372578231996424

saying:

"Following my posts of the last week, I'd like to ask everyone to please stop attacking each other via Twitter or other means. In particular, I'd like everyone to please stop attacking @timnitGebru and everyone who has been critical of my posts."

Was I pointing out what Lecun said or her specific way of handling that interaction? Its the latter thats toxic. If people were attacking Timnit for that interaction why is that? Clearly she did not handle that very well.

I think if she is to be judged on whether she was being toxic to Lecun or not, Lecun's opinion is relevant. Why do you feel it's not? And if his opinion isn't relevant, why should we care about yours?

I also find your question about why people attacked her, as if people in the internet always have good reasons to attack others, is an incredibly silly attempt to appeal to the Bandwagon fallacy.

Lecun is way more of a professional than her. He handled it the way it should be, do you think lecun is going to come out and say something other than what he did as a respected individual in the industry?

Now go and look at how she has handled it and how she argued with Lecun. Then she also thratens people if she does not get her way. There is ample evidence for her behavior. Does she behave like this all the time? Of course probably not. But the fact that she is openly behaving like this is a clear data point. If you can not see this behavior as not suitable in a work environment, then lets hope we never work together.

They were continuing to work on the paper for publication, which, if you've never written an academic paper, is a lengthy process. There's a heck of a difference between not being done and not wanting a rough draft circulating vs being asked to withdraw the paper entirely.

Given that she seems relatively popular within Brain - more importantly her collaborators and direct manager, why should we assume she fostered a toxic work environment with those around her? More like, it appears the people who wanted her out were leadership and a set of anonymous PR/IP reviewers she does not know.

Her behavior is clear evidence of how she interacts with people. You can be a brilliant jerk and still get along with some people. In a team environment however, there is no place for this. Her exchange with Lecun, her threatening words and many of the way she puts forward her arguments. Even if she was in the right here, she can easily deal with it without doing what she did here.

So yes, there is more evidence for her toxic behavior than there is for her ability deal with disagreements professionally and work in a team environment.

TBH, I think this whole review things is just a reason for google letting her go. They were probably looking for a reason and she using her threatening (aka toxic) nature was just what google needed.

Again, I repeat, if her team had issues with her, her direct report would know and her team wouldn't be harping constant praise towards her.

The people who removed her are executives several skips above her. That is unusual.

You keep bringing up LeCun, but LeCun did not get harmed as you imagine - he only conceded to her point because she was frankly the expert in the topic of discussion and he finally acknowledged that.

Can you link to your conclusions?

Because thats not how I have seen it. She threatened to leave. If any of my team had an issue, and their response 'Do X, Y, X or ill leave', even if they are in the right, I would not align with them purely out of the fact that that is not the right behavior. You can still leave any company with out threats.

Also we have not seen the email to the brain group. I wonder how that compared to her exchange with Lecun and her threatening nature.

Lecun was not harmed? How did she contribute to a healthy debate there? Please also link me. Because all I saw were aggressive tones towards someone she disagreed with (even if she was in the right). Again, he behavior (not if she was right or not) is the problem here. You can be right, but still be an asshole.

Also, how do you know some people in her team didnt have problems with her? Do you have here perf reports? I believe her direct manager is not the only person that can fire her. She can be ok good terms with her direct manager and still behave unacceptably towards higher ups

1. https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334877710477385728

2. How was LeCun harmed? As far as I'm concerned, he accepted the feedback. And just so we're clear on what happened then - Gebru was only one of many with qualifications who were aggressively critical because of his abdication of research responsibilities. I don't know why you're so focused on Gebru in particular.

3. Yes, if this was about performance, her direct manager who oversees 300 people would know.

4. So yes, glad to see we agree higher ups, who she likely has little to no interaction with to supposedly be exhausted of her behaviors, stepped in to get rid of her.

1. Again, Managers are not the only person nor do they have to wait for someone’s direct manager to fire someone. If someone’s behavior is not acceptable, anyone authorized person in the company can fire them. Your link is irrelevant to facts.

2. Do you really think lecun wouldn’t have left Twitter if he didn’t find that conversation enjoyable? Do you discount the many other people who found her interactions with lecun horrible? Did any of the other people behave as arrogantly towards lecun as she did? Again, no point made.

3. See 1

4. See 1

So, you can either stop ignoring the fact that her own behavior led to this, or you can continue to think many other respected people in the industry who act way more professionally than her are just against her because they don’t support her views or think google is racist.

That’s not the point. Being removed by executives you rarely interact with because they want you to retract a paper is extremely suspicious. And the community has responded with disappointment.

You are the only person postulating the intention of her firing. I am merely calling out your assumptions because the consensus from the entire community involved has declared otherwise.

Most other people who found her refutations horrible are outsiders who don’t fully grasp the topic LeCun and Gebru and everyone else was alluding to.

Who are the respected in the industry that are against her? Not even LeCun, who has said he thinks her work is important. Nothing in your post has facts at all.

Again, you are assuming that this incident was the only thing that led to her firing. If she behaves like this in public, how does she behave and interact with individuals inside the company? It doesnt matter if she interacts with senior management. If I saw someone i never interacted with harass someone, as a manager, should I just let her direct manager deal with it? Absolutely not. HR would fire that person if it was deemed against expected management behaviour. Google even explicitly stated that she was fired for unexpected management behavior.

You dont have to grasp a topic to know if someone is debating respectfully. I dont have to be a doctor to know that the person is an asshole if they act like an asshole towards me.

I think lets just agree to disagree. Focus on the behavior. Not what she is writing about in her papers. And imaging someone acted like that towards you in a workplace. Imagine you are a CEO or a manager and someone comes to you and says 'Do x y or z otherwise im leaving'. Id be like wtf, sure, if thats how you deal with disagreements, cya'. Everyone is replaceable especially toxic people.

I am only working with what has been corroborated by Google, her teammates, and Dean. There has been no indication whatsoever, thus far, by any account - anonymous or not - of her interactions OR behaviors being problematic in any sense with any single individual. Now, you have gone as far as making up imaginary hypotheticals and blatant accusations - that not a single person has made - of harassment. You are not a person who argues facts - only personal biases and feelings about how you perceive a twitter conversation went down - one that peacefully discontinued.

How can you objectively comment on her behavior if you have never interacted with the person ever?

This has been discussed in prior threads. A manager is well within his rights to act upon his decisions emotionally. Employees are well within their rights to express concern. If I work in a workplace with severe safety issues, I would most definitely demand an ultimatum for my personal occupational security. Managers DO NOT impulsively fire individuals unless they are mentally unable to navigate through a conflict. It's far more nuanced than that.

Based on previous discussions, she bullied facebook's AI chief, Yann LeCun, who is apparently a respected expert in the field, off of twitter in an attempted cancellation.

Lecun's last post on twitter was telling people not to attack her, so I'm not sure that characterization holds.

Lecun is way more an adult and professional than she is. I dont expect anything other response from Lecun. Now, lets turn the tables, have you ever seen a response like that from the person in question here?