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Re:Thomas Sowell interview by sbuttgereit on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:02AM (#24038560)
So then, how does a black person adopt, of their own free will without a thought of "white belief", a conservative outlook an not run afoul of your complaint?

Are you suggesting that they stay silent? How is injecting race into the political discourse at this level not in itself patently racist? Are you suggesting that only whites are allowed such free choices in their beliefs?

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by x86_64Ubuntu on Monday August 03, 2020 @02:12PM (#24041244)
Why do you attach "black free will" with adhering to the black subjugation ideas of the US right-wing?
Re:Thomas Sowell interview by sojournerc on Monday August 03, 2020 @10:19AM (#24038057)
Are you suggesting all white conservatives are racist? Doesn't that sound like an overbroad, racist generalization itself?

I'd like to find a good faith interpretation of your statement, but it really seems like your world view is that someone's skin color and political inclination determines their moral standing and beliefs.

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by jl2718 on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:13AM (#24038697)
No. Only the ones that like Thomas Sowell.
Re:Thomas Sowell interview by rukittenme on Monday August 03, 2020 @10:59AM (#24038499)
> To say things that white conservatives believe but suffer ridicule for saying.

This is so ridiculously racist and uninformed I don't know where to begin.

First, it assumes Sowell hasn't made any unique contributions to economics or politics. This is completely false but you presume it because... he's black? If he were white would you take him more seriously?

Second, you presume the only reason he is allowed to speak is to justify the racism of others. Which reduces Sowell to a useful idiot or a token. It completely strips him of his accomplishments. Imagine saying that a former member of government, a PhD, award winning economist, author of more than a dozen best selling books, and fellow at more than a dozen prestigious institutions is only listened to because he's black.

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by alexarnesen on Monday August 03, 2020 @10:00AM (#24037844)
Could you clarify "the point of Thomas Sowell"? It seems as though you are ascribing a "point" to an individual, what do you mean by that?

It seems like a non-sequitur to bring racism in on this thread - how does Sowell appeal to "white conservatives" more than conservatives of other backgrounds?

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by Barrin92 on Monday August 03, 2020 @10:21AM (#24038083)
because they can hold him up as an unbiased intellectual despite the fact that most of the opinions that he voices are trite, and honestly just sound like talk radio. I mean, just go through a few of his statements:

"Instead of trying to propagandize children to hug trees and recycle garbage, our schools would be put to better use teaching them how to analyze and test what is said by people who advocate tree-hugging, recycling, and innumerable other causes across the political spectrum."

"What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice."

If you think that's uncharitable go read what he's written over the years, in particular on politics, it's indistinguishable from my rambling grandfather. Even pay attention to the title of the post. "Thomas Sowell, the Nonconformist". How is he nonconformist as far his views go? He isn't, what's nonconformist is his background.

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by defen on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:20AM (#24038809)
A lot of stuff that goes into the recycling bin doesn't actually get recycled though, right? [0] So if your reason for recycling is "that's what good people do", and you don't actually know what happens to your stuff...you're not actually helping. You're doing a useless ritual that makes you feel better.

"What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice." This just sounds like a modern rephrasing of Murray Rothbard, I wouldn't necessarily call it "trite".

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/29/climate/recycling-landfil...

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by rukittenme on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:18AM (#24038782)
> "Instead of trying to propagandize children to hug trees and recycle garbage, our schools would be put to better use teaching them how to analyze and test what is said by people who advocate tree-hugging, recycling, and innumerable other causes across the political spectrum."

Advocating for critical thinking is not bad. You shouldn't tell children what to believe. You should give them the tools to determine their own beliefs.

> "What do you call it when someone takes someone else's money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else's money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice."

Are criticisms of social welfare limited to talk radio hosts?

> How is he nonconformist as far his views go?

He's nonconformist for the class he occupies. I.e. the "intellectual elite" (or however you want to refer to them).

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by Barrin92 on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:31AM (#24038977)
Strawmanning the education systems by ranting about tree-hugging hippies who indoctrinate the children and calling taxation theft isn't critical thinking, it's living in the bizarro world that is modern American conservatism.

His views also aren't non-conformist at all, they have a deep history in US politics. Friedman, Hayek, and so on for a large time during Sowells career practically dominated public discourse. Friedman alone probably is the single most influential economist of the last few decades as far as public discourse is concerned.

And that is squarely where Sowell is situated given that he hasn't ever actually worked as an economist, but basically as a pundit. Within American conservative punditry his views are as standard as it gets.

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by rukittenme on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:37AM (#24039065)
> Strawmanning the education system

Maybe he is. If that's the case, let's "steelman" his position and do better. Do you feel that Thomas Sowell would read your response and feel you grasped the argument he was making to the fullest extent? Do you feel you've honestly and accurately portrayed his position after understanding it fully?

In my opinion, you haven't. I think you're upset and its preventing you from understanding the argument being made.

> Sowell hasn't done economic research at all.

He has a wikipedia. Try your best to read it.

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by Barrin92 on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:50AM (#24039260)
>He has a wikipedia. Try your best to read it.

Sowell has published over thirty books, but I can find virtually no actual academic research. One of the last papers dates to the 60s, where he debates Marxism, but I think this is actually just a sort of philosophical treatise.

He's repeatedly rejected modelling, mathematics and virtually every other econonmic tool, so to call him an economist is kind of a misnomer.

And actually I do think I've portrayed his position fairly accurately. When you read his stuff it's often hard to tell if you're reading Sowell or Ann Coulter.

Btw I'm not opposed to conservative intellectual work in general. Chesterton is great, Carl Schmitt is probably one of the most intelligent writers of the last century. But Sowell isn't, and American Conservatism is in an intellectual crisis to put it mildly.

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Re:Thomas Sowell interview by Barrin92 on Monday August 03, 2020 @01:36PM (#24040805)
I'm not a neo-nazi, I'm personally not even conservative. But Schmitt is probably one of the most influential conservatives of the 20th century. He's not only influenced conservative thought but people ranging from Arendt, to Habermas, Strauss even Derrida among others. His writing on the state of exception or the friend-foe distinction had wide reach from theory to policy-making.

Meanwhile in US Conservatism you have people ranting about taxation being theft, I mean if that's the intellectual elite I don't know what's going on exactly.

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by BurningFrog on Monday August 03, 2020 @10:39AM (#24038283)
I think Sowell is a very important thinker in his own right.

At the same time, there is nothing conservatives love more than a black intellectual who strongly agrees with them. Perhaps for both good and bad reasons. That adoration does color the perception of people like Sowell.

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by john-shaffer on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:32AM (#24038987)
Your perception of Sowell is colored because he's a black intellectual? That sounds pretty damn racist.

How about not judging black people when they don't fit in the box you want to put them in?

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by BurningFrog on Monday August 03, 2020 @12:43PM (#24040003)
Can't tell if this is a joke or not.

For the record, I'm not having that perception. But many will judge people by who agrees with them.

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by john-shaffer on Monday August 03, 2020 @03:21PM (#24042147)
Not a joke. I got heated over (what seems to me) whitewashing of liberal racism. It is a very real problem that liberals can spout blatantly racist garbage ("You ain't black") but never actually get classified as racist. Yet merely thinking capitalism is a good system is enough to get one classified as a racist and a fascist.

I apologize for getting triggered on the second part of your post and forgetting the first, but I think it's very important to call racism racism. Calling racism "colored perceptions" is so misleading as to be false.

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by BurningFrog on Monday August 03, 2020 @04:04PM (#24042681)
You know, I thought briefly about rephrasing the "colored" part because the accidental "pun". But nothing came to mind.

I mostly agree with you about "liberal racism". Apology accepted.

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by rukittenme on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:04AM (#24038579)
Poor black people. You're either a token for conservative "racists" or a whip for liberal "racists" to flagellate themselves with.

Always the supporting actor. Never allowed to have ideas which inspire others to action. Just a tool for white people.

Re:Thomas Sowell interview by deiznof on Monday August 03, 2020 @10:00AM (#24037836)
Right, but I had no idea HN people were huge fans of the guy too.
Re:Thomas Sowell interview by rukittenme on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:08AM (#24038633)
Must be hard. Hating it when the ideas of a black author are supported, admired, and shape the political leanings of a white audience.
Re:Thomas Sowell interview by x86_64Ubuntu on Monday August 03, 2020 @02:13PM (#24041261)
It's not a "white audience", it's a white audience whose identity hinges on white supremacy.
Re:Thomas Sowell interview by rukittenme on Monday August 03, 2020 @02:34PM (#24041565)
I hate it when white supremacists admire and respect black authors.
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Re:Thomas Sowell interview by rukittenme on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:49AM (#24039248)
It's not a straw man to belittle you. Next time you respond to someone, try not to prefix it with "right" if you don't want to signal your agreement.