News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
[dead]
Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by kebman on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:50AM (#21249585)
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Nobody said the USA is perfect, but compared to China they pretty much are.
Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by ivalm on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:49AM (#21249579)
We are talking about current day and there is a world of difference between the shitshow in the US and straight evil going on in China.
Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by curiousgal on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:58AM (#21249673)
OP seemed to suggest that business should be conducted with ethical entities. My point was that the U.S. itself is not so and thus his point being null.
Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by ivalm on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:08PM (#21249780)
I think it is a matter of degree. There is a certain degree of shadiness that is acceptable (most of the world) and certain that should not be acceptable (China, saudi Arabia, etc). There is no moral equivalence between the US and China.
Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by DiogenesKynikos on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:23PM (#21250582)
In terms of foreign policy, you're right, but not in the way you think. American foreign policy has been 100x as evil as Chinese foreign policy for a long time. The US government invaded Iraq based on a lie, causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. That's just one of many truly evil things the US government has done abroad recently.
Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by curiousgal on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:18PM (#21249911)
> There is no moral equivalence between the US and China.

There certainly is one if you ask one of the victims of foreign U.S. policy.

My point is, there will always be a perspective from which saying "Don't do business with evil" includes the U.S.

Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by kebman on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:06PM (#21249754)
I understand what you're saying, though it's still whataboutism that tries to compare apples to pears. The USA essentially still cares about your privacy and individual rights. China doesn't. In the USA, where there are infractions on privacy (and sadly there are some), it can be openly criticised, discussed and possibly changed democratically. In China that's simply not the case.
Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by DiogenesKynikos on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:26PM (#21250626)
This would be more convincing if Snowden has never spoken up. But my assumption nowadays is that the US government (and many others) are looking at essentially anyone of interest to them. We're living in a golden era of surveillance. It's never been so cheap to surveil so many people.
Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by kebman on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:04PM (#21259972)
True that, but... You can do it too! :D I'm sure most people in here are acquainted with the graph database. Or with just about any tool to scrape the net for info. I'm just surprised more people aren't doing it. After all, it's a great way to keep tabs on your local politicians, investors and your neighbour's cat. Come on guys, let's party like it's DDR!
Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by friedman23 on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:57AM (#21249661)
Are you trying to justify China putting a million Uighur people in concentration camps and the suppression of Hong Kong with the argument that other people have done it in the past?
Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by curiousgal on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:00PM (#21249697)
No I am not. OP suggested that no one should deal with China because it is "evil". I'm saying the U.S. is also evil. I am not saying they're equally evil but still. Business is business.
Re:China's New Cybersecurity Program: No Place to Hide by PavlovsCat on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:46PM (#21253674)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7553127/Even-death-...

Compare that with American documentaries about American atrocities.

Sure, people are mean and cruel. Under totalitarianism, they are also mean and cruel, they even get forced to be, but there's a whole lot more going on. Just like murder and compassion are not the same just because they both contain "non-zero amounts of suffering", and both end with the heat death of the universe.

https://www.huxley.net/bnw-revisited/

> Many young people, it is true, do not seem to value freedom. But some of us still believe that, with­out freedom, human beings cannot become fully hu­man and that freedom is therefore supremely valuable. Perhaps the forces that now menace freedom are too strong to be resisted for very long. It is still our duty to do whatever we can to resist them.

Physical suffering and murder are older than history. Even animals can be dicks to each other, on a much smaller scale of course. But the industrial mass extermination of people, as well as the totalitarian attempt to control reality by rewriting history, the bid to control the whole planet, that is new.

> We don't know a perfected totalitarian power structure, because it would require the control of the whole planet. But we know enough about the the still preliminary experiments of total organization to realize that the very well possible perfection of this apparatus would get rid of human agency in the sense as we know it. To act would turn out to be superfluous for people living together, when all people have become an example of their species, when all doing has become an acceleration of the movement mechanism of history or nature following a set pattern, and all deeds have become the execution of death sentences which history and nature have given anyway.

-- Hannah Arendt

Even though very few people seem to grok it, this is another category. This is about more than "just" millions of people murdered or in prison.

> The frightening coincidence of the modern population explosion with the discovery of technical devices that, through automation, will make large sections of the population 'superfluous' even in terms of labor, and that, through nuclear energy, make it possible to deal with this twofold threat by the use of instruments beside which Hitler's gassing installations look like an evil child's fumbling toys, should be enough to make us tremble.

-- Hannah Arendt

So saying "the US is evil" is about as useful as saying "China is evil". What matters is what deeds are evil, what thoughts are idiotic, what roads lead to hell -- and the responsibility of individuals to both judge these things and act and organize according to their judgements. Insofar our governments and the companies they enable are corrupt and evil, with us basically paying for both, one way or another, it's up to us to rectify that.