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Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by bryanlarsen on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:52AM (#19379194)
There is significantly more genetic variety in the single black "race" than all others put together. You could try dividing blacks into three or twelve different races but those lines are quite difficult to draw.

Any statement which considers black a single race and white and Oriental distinct is automatically suspect.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:43AM (#19379775)
> There is significantly more genetic variety in the single black "race" than all others put together. You could try dividing blacks into three or twelve different races but those lines are quite difficult to draw.

Not only that, people want to continue using the existing (extremely flawed) categories, and that's where it leads you to problems.

"More genetic variety in a single race than between races" is a great argument for why you shouldn't discriminate based on race -- even if the mean for some "race" is higher or lower, that doesn't tell you much about the individual before you.

But it does tell you something about aggregate statistics. When you discover that some "race" is underrepresented in some field, it's completely possible that a major cause is that the median in that arbitrarily defined racial category is below the median in another arbitrarily defined racial category. Which can be true even when a significant minority in the worse off racial category is above the median in the better off racial category -- which minority constitute most of the people of that "race" who are represented in that field.

Ideally the solution is to recognize "race" as a garbage category with no scientific basis and stop using it for anything, ever again. But that is where politics gets in the way, because people have built their political coalitions around the flawed concept that categorization based on race is anything more than an error.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by nathan_long on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @12:01PM (#19379985)
> When you discover that some "race" is underrepresented in some field, it's completely possible that a major cause is that the median in that arbitrarily defined racial category is below the median in another arbitrarily defined racial category.

It's possible, yes. It's also possible that perceptions of race influence the subjective decisions that drive those outcomes. How would you determine causality?

Eg, you could try sending employers identical resumes with "black sounding" and "white sounding" names and measuring callback rates. This has been done: https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/15...).

There are likely many factors in racial disparities, but this appears to be one of them.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @12:27PM (#19380289)
https://www.reddit.com/r/TiADiscussion/comments/5na1fr/that_...

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-...

TL;DR: Original study used names that coded for socioeconomic status as well as race, and is older so people may have been more racist then than they are today. Newer study using names that ostensibly code for race and gender but not socioeconomic status shows no difference between race or gender coded names.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by pas on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:54AM (#19379898)
> it's completely possible that a major cause is that the median in that arbitrarily defined racial category is below the median in another arbitrarily defined racial category.

Sure, possible, in the sense of theoretically possible. But very unlikely as socioeconomic factors potentially dwarf all of the aggregate group differences.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @12:05PM (#19380033)
Sure. The issue is the difference that remains even after you [at least attempt to] control for socioeconomic and other factors.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by ddorian43 on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @10:59AM (#19379279)
Can you compare them after you split them ? Or are you saying you can't even compare them ? Can you compare "black races" with "asian races" ?
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by nathan_long on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:31AM (#19379658)
No. Go look at pictures of Melanesians. Are they "black"? Yet:

> Among Templeton's conclusions: there is more genetic similarity between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans and between Europeans and Melanesians, inhabitants of islands northeast of Australia, than there is between Africans and Melanesians. Yet, sub-Saharan Africans and Melanesians share dark skin, hair texture and cranial-facial features, traits commonly used to classify people into races. According to Templeton, this example shows that "racial traits" are grossly incompatible with overall genetic differences between human populations.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1998-10/WUiS-GSRD-07...

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by jniedrauer on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:34AM (#19379677)
I'm not a geneticist or an anthropologist, but by appearance alone, it seems like there is a much larger genetic difference between the Tutsi and the Pygmies than there is between Chinese and Koreans. And these are two races from the same exact region. There are hundreds of "races" from Africa. It's a massive continent.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by fenomas on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:55AM (#19379913)
You can compare any groups you like, but only after you've decided who goes into which group. The point being made here is that with race, that decision is subjective, and heavily influenced by various social factors unrelated to people's genetics and so forth.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by SamReidHughes on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:47AM (#19379819)
In America, black people descended from slaves are all mixed together. There are not distinct categories like there are in Africa.
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by llamaz on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:02AM (#19379313)
IQ itself is not even close to science in the sense of physics, chemistry, or even biology.

Psychology as a whole is disreputable, literally half its studies fail to replicate. You might as well flip a coin.

Sure, IQ is the best that we have. But it's terrible.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by barry-cotter on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:45AM (#19379795)
IQ and the rest of psychometrics replicates, as does personality psychology. Massive sample sizes, people strongly motivated to get things right and generations of intelligent people trying to prove them wrong, many of whom have gone into psychometrics themselves have ensured that psychometrics has very sound backing.

Saying psychology as a whole is disreputable is just anti-intellectual know nothingism. The divide between psychophysics (the study of perception) and neuroscience is as great as that between social psychology and sociology, small. Trying to denounce all of psychology by association with social psychology just betrays ignorance. The same applies to many, many papers in the exact sciences.

> In cancer science, many “discoveries” don’t hold up

> During a decade as head of global cancer research at Amgen, C. Glenn Begley identified 53" landmark" publications--papers in top journals, from reputable labs--for his team to reproduce. Begley sought to double-check the findings before trying to build on them for drug development. Result: 47 of the 53 could not be replicated. He described his findings in a commentary piece published on Wednesday in the journal Nature.

http://medicalexposedownloads.com/PDF/Cancer%20science%20Res...

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by llamaz on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:57AM (#19379936)
Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by nathan_long on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:20AM (#19379523)
> Templeton used the same strategy to try to identify race in human populations that evolutionary and population biologists use for non-human species, from salamanders to chimpanzees. He treated human populations as if they were non-human populations.

> "I'm not saying these results don't recognize genetic differences among human populations," he cautions. "There are differences, but they don't define historical lineages that have persisted for a long time. The point is, for race to have any scientific validity and integrity it has to have generality beyond any one species. If it doesn't, the concept is meaningless."

> ...

> Among Templeton's conclusions: there is more genetic similarity between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans and between Europeans and Melanesians, inhabitants of islands northeast of Australia, than there is between Africans and Melanesians. Yet, sub-Saharan Africans and Melanesians share dark skin, hair texture and cranial-facial features, traits commonly used to classify people into races. According to Templeton, this example shows that "racial traits" are grossly incompatible with overall genetic differences between human populations.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1998-10/WUiS-GSRD-07...

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by fenomas on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:20AM (#19379532)
> Whether you are white or black or have epicanthic fold or stuff like that is 100% encoded in your genes.

Sure, but that doesn't mean your race is. Race is a subjective classification based on objective characteristics.

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by nathan_long on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:27AM (#19379607)
> Race is a subjective classification based on objective characteristics.

Perhaps more subjective than you think? Please read about the "one drop rule".

Re:Online activists are silencing us, scientists say by fenomas on Wednesday March 13, 2019 @11:50AM (#19379855)
I am familiar with it, and I have no idea what you're trying to suggest.