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Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by aphextron on Sunday September 10, 2017 @09:15AM (#15212089)
I think it’s precisely this level of hubris toward biology and the natural world which has led humanity to the state we are in. You cannot possibly compare such a dynamic, complex system as the earth’s ecosystem to a simple, human scale analogy. Any loss of biodiversity is a tragedy. Once these genetics are lost, they are gone forever.
Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by copx on Sunday September 10, 2017 @09:44AM (#15212185)
>I think it’s precisely this level of hubris toward biology and the natural world which has led humanity to the state we are in.

You mean this awesome state where most of our children don't die before reaching adulthood?

You should really read a history book about how horrible life was before the dawn of modern industrial civilization. Our ancestors declared war on nature for a good reason and made our lives unimaginably better this way.

> Any loss of biodiversity is a tragedy.

I bet Africans disagree. Mosquitoes have killed more humans than all wars combined. Bill Gates and company are currently trying to wipe them out to save the lives of countless millions in Africa. I am pretty sure they won't miss the "biodiversity" which keeps killing them and the people they love.

By the way, the US used to have regions plagued by mosquitos and malaria too. The parasites were systematically exterminated through chemical warfare (DDT). Do you think e.g. Florida would be a better place with malaria? With hundreds of thousands of people being killed by it every year? I don't. And I am not ashamed of this "level of hubris".

> Once these genetics are lost, they are gone forever.

Not all genes are worth preserving e.g. the ones for horrible heritable diseases.

Also what you wrote is not really true, all life, all the biodiversity on earth evolved from the same archaic cells. So "gone forever" is too optimistic / pessimistic.

Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by omginternets on Sunday September 10, 2017 @11:09AM (#15212504)
I don't think he disagrees with the fact that parasites cause extreme suffering, nor that ending this suffering is a good thing.

Rather, I think his point is that there's a hidden cost to the loss of biodiversity that ridding the world of parasites entails. Moreover, his point is that ethical analyses (such as the one you present) tend to minimize the extreme complexity of biological systems, and that therefore the conclusions of such analyses should be viewed suspiciously.

Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by njarboe on Sunday September 10, 2017 @01:34PM (#15213248)
Most biological systems are complex adaptive systems and handle changes quite well. Killing off a few species of mosquitoes or parasites that only live in humans, is unlikely to upset any ecosystem in a major way. Plowing up all of the native grass land in the American Mid-West to grow corn or cutting down the Amazon rain forest to grow soybeans; these are the large scale wholesale destruction of the environment that people should be concerned about.
Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by omginternets on Monday September 11, 2017 @03:56AM (#15216795)
That reads like a statement of faith. Show me the data.
Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by Razengan on Sunday September 10, 2017 @11:59AM (#15212745)
I have a hunch that by shunting blood between different creatures, mosquitos and similar “parasites” may have -once- played a crucial role in the evolution of many species.

Whether that role is necessary now or not, we cannot know for certain. Of course though, we can and should limit their ability to cause “suffering.”

Imagine us killing all bees to extinction because their stings hurt, then realizing that they were necessary for many plants.

Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by ufo on Sunday September 10, 2017 @12:49PM (#15213003)
Mosquito's don't shunt blood between different creatures. Mosquito-transmitted diseases are transmitted via the mosquito's anticoagulant saliva or their poop. Mosquito-transmitted parasites must also be able to reproduce inside the mosquito and many go through one or more stages of their life cycle inside it.

This is why you can get malaria from a mosquito but not AIDS.

Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by Razengan on Sunday September 10, 2017 @01:05PM (#15213096)
Ah I’ve always been under the impression that the blood they drank “leaked” and mixed as they went around biting different creatures.
Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by tomjen3 on Sunday September 10, 2017 @01:31PM (#15213229)
>I think it’s precisely this level of hubris toward biology and the natural world which has led humanity to the state we are in

Where billions are living longer, healthier, more peaceful, productive, less deceased lives than anybody though possible 100 years ago? Where we are on the tresshold of the possibility of maybe eliminating extreme poverty?

Yeah, lets try to save a few strains of DNA.

Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by ufo on Sunday September 10, 2017 @11:27AM (#15212592)
In many ecological systems parasites really are the "top predator" that keeps a population in check. If you take away the parasites there are no other predator to take that ecological role and keep things in check.

Another important aspect of parasites is that they usually only parasitise a specific species. One place where this makes a big difference is agricultural pest control. Attempts to suppress agricultural pests by introducing predators often backfire because the predator might also eat native species or itself become a pest (like the Cane Toad in Australia). Biocontrol with parasitic wasps, on the other hand, is much more targeted: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/07/100719-paras...

Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by JumpCrisscross on Sunday September 10, 2017 @10:06AM (#15212259)
> It's like saying human society needs people on welfare, thieves, and robbers to function

Malicious agents may actually play a critical game-theoretical role in promoting in-group coöperation [1]. Sort of like how teams can be made stronger with an enemy "them" to be defeated by a now-defined "us".

(That said, I agree that any parasite that preys on humans should be eradicated.)

[1] http://deim.urv.cat/~alexandre.arenas/publicacions/pdf/joker...

Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by jcelerier on Sunday September 10, 2017 @09:31AM (#15212146)
I get that we are mostly working with 0 and 1s, but god isn't this a binary vision of the world.

> no essential ecological role

"ecological role" is a purely human concept. Nature doesn't give a shit about lions, zebras, parasites, or humans ; hence it's up to use to decide what we care about. Why should a lion be more important than a tapeworm ? Because it's less ugly ?

Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by JumpCrisscross on Sunday September 10, 2017 @10:45AM (#15212410)
"Ecological usefulness" appears to be shorthand for a measure on a species' critical interconnectedness. That is to say, the magnitude of the impact on other species a particular species' removal would have. If you knock out algae, you wipe out many ocean species. If you knock out certain mosquitoes, you may only jinx malaria.
Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by pvaldes on Sunday September 10, 2017 @06:13PM (#15214568)
Wrong. Again and again repeating the same wrong idea.

Mosquito larvae are aquatic, and the prey of freshwater fishes, toads, frogs, bats... they are directly or indirectly linked with almost everything around marshes and lakes: bacteria, algae, birds. We can expect a tsunami of unpredictable consequences for freshwater ecosystems and also for men. What if we wipe mosquito only to discover that they are necessary to controlling amoeba proliferation in water, for example?. We don't know.

Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by jacobush on Sunday September 10, 2017 @09:42AM (#15212180)
Yes
Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by maxerickson on Sunday September 10, 2017 @09:19AM (#15212103)
Back when I was at school we were taught that parasites - unlike all other organisms - have no essential ecological role and this article has not convinced me otherwise.

The article has a bunch of scientists talking about recent science that questions this assumption.

Re:A third of parasite species could vanish by brians on Sunday September 10, 2017 @01:24PM (#15213196)
Parasites change the time constant of the exponential system, sometimes allowing other controllers to function without underdamping and violent oscillation.