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Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by rorykoehler on Saturday July 15, 2017 @06:07AM (#14775927)
Regulations and taxes are not remotely in the same ballpark as banning private conversations.
Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by Jabanga on Saturday July 15, 2017 @06:58AM (#14776063)
Regulations on private economic interaction says that I can't give you a ride for money, or vice versa. It's restricting totally private action between two consenting adults. I don't see a ban on private communication being fundamentally more immoral.

Taxes on income, rather than say natural resource consumption, means requiring a person to disclose their private transactions to the state under penalty of imprisonment. I'm not sure why you're not seeing the parallels between this and banning private conversations.

Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by redy on Saturday July 15, 2017 @07:45AM (#14776183)
It's because there is no meaningful parallel. Conversations are not economic transactions. Period. You can try to stretch analogies ("walking is illegal because of traffic lights!1") but that's stupid and unhelpful.

The Constitution doesn't guarantee a right to private communications. This is the problem. Period. The 4th amendment was sacrificed during the anti-drug/anti-black eighties. Right now the moment information leaves your home -- whether its a phone call or a letter or a bitcoin transaction -- the government has the right to intercept that. They don't even need a warrant in practice.

It's going to require a Constitutional amendment, really a new 4th amendment, that will clearly and unambiguously extend privacy to a person's communication and data. Complaining about taxes on barter isn't going to help and is nothing but distraction.

Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by Jabanga on Saturday July 15, 2017 @11:08AM (#14777005)
Of course they're different: private communications are not economic interactions, but both are private interactions between mutually consenting parties. So there are parallels.

That people choose to deny any link is not surprising.

Like I said, society has accepted these classes of restrictions on private interaction, and that means it will be very hard to make a coherent argument against prohibiting private communication. Such arguments will be hobbled by arbitrary judgments that this private interaction ought to be free from interference, invasion or censor, while this other private interaction should not. Cognitive dissonance will make a concerted push against prohibitions on private communication difficult.

As for the US Constitution, that only relates to the US. The global question will be decided by the majority's perception of the morality of right to privacy and autonomy.

Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by rorykoehler on Saturday July 15, 2017 @10:24AM (#14776758)
Regulating Uber and Airbnb is BS protectionism. Regulating companies to stop pollution is essential and I support it wholeheartedly.

Tax is a different subject and I agree the way the system works now is suboptimal however paying tax is an important part of maintaining a healthy and functioning society.

Banning private conversation however is not beneficial to individuals or society. There is no reason anyone would suggest this approach unless they were planning to exploit it in a nefarious fashion. I would much prefer to live in a world with some terrorism that can be dealt with through education, improved foreign policies and opportunities for all than a dystopian world with no private conversations.

Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by Jabanga on Saturday July 15, 2017 @11:13AM (#14777037)
Pollution is not a private interaction between consenting parties. It's a negative externality, that is morally in the same class of behaviors as theft and assault. I was referring specifically to laws prohibiting the former.

As for your justification for taxes on private income, it's the same argument that mass surveillance advocates make for prohibiting encryption that doesn't let the state see private communications. You've both accepted the right of the state to limit people's privacy. You're just bargaining over when the ends justify the means.

Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by rorykoehler on Saturday July 15, 2017 @11:34AM (#14777159)
I'd rather live in a stateless society too however it's all I've ever known. That's not the case for private communication and to be fair banned private communication makes changing the status quo practically impossible. It sits on a layer above everything else.
Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by Jabanga on Saturday July 15, 2017 @11:40AM (#14777193)
To clarify: I'm not advocating for a stateless society. I'm advocating for the right to personal autonomy and privacy. That means ending taxes on private transactions, not all taxes.
Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by CamperBob2 on Saturday July 15, 2017 @04:07PM (#14778667)
I don't see a ban on private communication being fundamentally more immoral.

In the US it would be, since one is Constitutionally protected and the other isn't. That doesn't mean we can let our guard down, of course.

And our First Amendment and Fourth Amendment are no help to the Australian people at all, sadly. They will have to stand up for themselves on this one, and I hope they do.

Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by thanksgiving on Saturday July 15, 2017 @06:46AM (#14776030)
To play the devil's advocate, how do we enforce taxes on a private transaction? Do we bake in some kind of asymmetry like a sales tax where one party has a financial incentive to report the expense so we can check if the recipient declared it as income?

I don't know. I'm just asking.

Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by dmurray on Saturday July 15, 2017 @07:19AM (#14776110)
"We" audit a sample of citizens and if any of them had large non-private transactions (for example, buying a house, or investing millions in a hedge fund) we demand they explain where the money came from. If they don't explain it, or explain it came from a transaction which they should have disclosed, we confiscate their property or imprison them.

It's hard to hide everything from the likes of the IRS.

Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by rlpb on Saturday July 15, 2017 @12:24PM (#14777432)
> Do we bake in some kind of asymmetry like a sales tax where one party has a financial incentive to report the expense so we can check if the recipient declared it as income?

You essentially just described VAT.

Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by thanksgiving on Saturday July 15, 2017 @05:06PM (#14778943)
Do we have something like this for income tax?
Re:Australian PM Calls for End-To-End Encryption Ban by AnthonyMouse on Monday July 17, 2017 @12:44PM (#14790194)
The distinction between income and consumption taxes is largely political. The buyer's consumption is the seller's income.

For example, VAT as applied to securities transactions is basically just another name for capital gains tax.

VAT isn't traditionally applied to the purchase of labor, but that doesn't make much difference because only expenses where VAT was collected on purchase should be deductible when it's collected on sale, so it just means the same tax is paid on the other side when the products of the labor are sold.