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Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by Skeptique on Saturday June 24, 2017 @07:23AM (#14625219)
The amusing thing is -- when men are too careful, that is also supposedly sexist. Consider VP Pence's stance on not having dinner with women, his extreme guard against any potential impropriety. The reaction? Here is one: "The vice president—and other powerful men—regularly avoid one-on-one meetings with women in the name of protecting their families. In the end, what suffers is women’s progress." https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/pences-g...
Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by tacomonstrous on Saturday June 24, 2017 @08:50AM (#14625416)
It can be a fine line, but a superior who refuses to meet one-on-one with you just because you're a woman is not doing their job well.
Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by jbmorgado on Saturday June 24, 2017 @12:05PM (#14626036)
Not in a culture like the one we we are living, where a woman only needs to accuse a men - without any evidence - of sexual harassment and automatically ruin all his carer and possibly his family life.

Even if the case never gets to trial or even if it does and it can be proved the woman was simply lying, your life is already over. Just see what happened to Strauss Khan from IMF (not that I actually liked that guy TBH).

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by tacomonstrous on Saturday June 24, 2017 @12:25PM (#14626115)
If the best example you can come up with is someone who literally got a blowjob from a hotel maid in his room just before leaving the country, which blowjob was only the latest instance of various supershady sexual activities/overtures involving subordinates and colleagues, then your position must be a very weak one indeed.
Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by jbmorgado on Saturday June 24, 2017 @12:43PM (#14626222)
> "If the best example you can come up with is someone who literally got a blowjob from a hotel maid in his room "

See your way of reasoning in which you automatically assume that whenever a woman accuses a men in power than the men is guilty, is exactly the problem here.

Where can you tell Strauss Khan "literally got a blowjob from a hotel maid" in a case that didn't even go to trial because the accuser was found guilty of "repeatedly lying" in several of her statements by no less than a grand jury?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominique_Strauss-Kahn#New_Yor...

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by tacomonstrous on Saturday June 24, 2017 @01:45PM (#14626574)
DSK never denied getting a blowjob. The only question was if it was physically coerced.

Claiming with a straight face that men are the ones who have it hard here is just prima facie laughable.

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by microcolonel on Saturday June 24, 2017 @10:42AM (#14625746)
It has the same problems for any man in power, it's not a matter of "doing your job well". You basically have to record your office at all times to be safe from accusations of this sort.

Well, that is assuming you're innocent of anything that could be classed as improper, which is an ever growing class of activities.

I think that in this case, the accused is guilty of something, but it's not yet clear whether it was quite illegal. Hence a trial probably. His personal statements corroborate this.

I tend to record most conversations I have in a professional setting these days. I would record everything if I were managing people. It also helps as a general memory aid, and if anyone ever gets upset with me and decides to sling some mud, I'll have it all on file.

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by LeeHwang on Saturday June 24, 2017 @09:55AM (#14625579)
Its a lose-lose for men, but Pence's route is the far safer option.
Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by Geekette on Saturday June 24, 2017 @10:41AM (#14625744)
"This article has zero information, but a picture and name of the accused man. This modern kind of witch hunt is disgusting. It also seems to be that the bar for calling something sexual harassement is constantly lowered and results in a poisoned atmosphere where any playful transgression between genders is rendered impossible."

The article clearly links to the original report, which outlines the accusations in great detail.

The bar for calling something sexual harassment is NOT constantly lowered but incidents are thankfully being highlighted more and more, which should make more would be perps think twice. The rules of engagement in professional settings are clear, especially in regards to a person in position of power vs subordinate and sexual attention has no place there. A meeting about fundraising for a company should center discussions on just that. The suggestion that anyone's discomfort at such harassment should be deprioritized to allow for "playful transgression between genders" is asinine.

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by s_kilk on Saturday June 24, 2017 @06:27AM (#14625112)
> where any playful transgression between genders is rendered impossible.

As it damn well should be.

To be clear: if you're making unwanted 'transgressions' against women in your workplace then you are in the wrong. Women are not your playthings.

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by michalu on Saturday June 24, 2017 @06:54AM (#14625170)
>As it damn well should be.

I met my current girlfriend, I saw her on the street coming out of the metro, we exchanged eye contact and I walked over, talked, flirted and asked for the number...

We met the same night and she thanked me for coming over to talk to her. She's from France, I'm from Eastern Europe... we'd never meet otherwise and over the last year we experienced the most beautiful thing, that people call love.

In some places, like Manchester, this is now sexual harassment... I feel sorry for the world you live in...

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by csomar on Saturday June 24, 2017 @09:17AM (#14625477)
You met her on the street, not on the workplace. You started with an eye contact and then escalated as you were getting approval of your actions.

There is nothing wrong with that.

But I can't think of a single reason to do that in a workplace (correctly), let alone with people you are directly working/involved with. It seems to be careful not to date them. There are tons of people outside (or maybe inside the same company but in different departments you don't deal with).

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by michalu on Saturday June 24, 2017 @09:31AM (#14625511)
yes but that was not the subject of the original comment - "both at work or elsewhere" ... my parents, and parents of most of my friends met in the workplace...

... there's recent legislation in Manchester, where if you talk to a woman on the street she can just accuse you of sexual harassment ... I guess we're running out of places to meet women we actually want to get to know and heading towards a world where your only 'safe' options are a lifetime porn (or sexbot) or waiting for some woman to choose you whether you like it or not ... not a nice place to be in my opinion but good luck to those aiming for it

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by csomar on Saturday June 24, 2017 @09:40AM (#14625534)
> there's recent legislation in Manchester, where if you talk to a woman on the street she can just accuse you of sexual harassment

Link to the legislation in question? (or maybe news link about it?)

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by michalu on Saturday June 24, 2017 @09:48AM (#14625552)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/nottinghamshire-p...

"A police force has become the first in Britain to recognise misogyny as a hate crime ... It also includes ... uninvited verbal contact"

That's now classified as hate crime... while I agree with all other stuff, that little insert there makes a world of difference... it's Nottingham not Manchester, there are undergoing efforts to implement this elsewhere too

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by Firebrand on Saturday June 24, 2017 @09:31AM (#14625510)
* Be attractive

* Don't be unattractive

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by michalu on Saturday June 24, 2017 @09:35AM (#14625521)
There may have been 50 other more attractive guys she passed by that day... if you don't take action no level of attraction matters
Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by ntsplnkv2 on Saturday June 24, 2017 @10:06AM (#14625615)
The fact is people everywhere are in denial of our biology.

If sex was better accepted across the culture, there wouldn't be a need for these ambiguous games perpetuated by both sides.

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by omginternets on Saturday June 24, 2017 @10:33AM (#14625713)
You're assuming the transgression is against the woman, which is clearly not what the OP meant.

More to the point, this kind of "no sex with coworkers" mentality has many of us Europeans rolling our eyes at the New World. It's absolutely possible to both respect women and have sexual encounters with people we meet at the workplace and do so in a professional manner.

There's a huge difference between playful, consensual flirting and fucking on the photocopier. My experience is that the people who fail to make these distinction constitute -- in fact -- a highly ideological minority.

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by philfrasty on Saturday June 24, 2017 @06:50AM (#14625162)
playful (mutual) != unwanted
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Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by xwvvvvwx on Saturday June 24, 2017 @08:24AM (#14625352)
I have been in perfectly reasonable conversations within a group where a woman has taken a statement so wildly out of context that frivolous reports are filed

Why do you think you have the right to decide whether someone else should find a comment inappropriate or not?

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by almccann on Saturday June 24, 2017 @09:38AM (#14625528)
Subjectivity versus objectivity is the crux of the issue with standards of behaviour.

I understand a common idea nowadays is the subjective standard of any group member (victim) is considered paramount in assessing conduct. But this descends into meaninglessness because all people tolerate others' conduct at differing levels.

This is why the common law has long assessed standards of behaviour using the "reasonable person" as a hypothetical objective measure of appropriate conduct in the given circumstances.[1]

The commenter may not have the right to decide appropriate behaviour, but at some point we must ask "would the reasonable person in X situation presented with Y conduct be harmed?".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person

Re:6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault ... by coolcat84 on Saturday June 24, 2017 @08:33AM (#14625368)
Because when it's clearly frivolous and results in no action by management (who deem it a non-issue), all it does is create a work environment where people aren't comfortable talking about ANYTHING. I'm not talking about clearly inappropriate speech in the workplace, I'm talking about normal conversation that is twisted and misconstrued to attack others. I have witnessed this happen multiple times and it is baffling.